who will challenge Virgin America

[shon7]

If Virgin America starts hiring Captains at 36K per year -- is there any scenario where this can be opposed? Who will oppose it? Or will the industry rates plumett further?

 

[KCSO780]

Mesa will oppose it, only they are allowed to be at the bottom of the pay scale......seriously though, it would be nice if pilots would stage a boycott and refuse to work there until they offer a respectable pay scale, but with so many on the unemployment line, it makes it difficult. For me, I just eat a piece of humble pie everyday and give thanks that I have a job.

 

[limodriver1]

Where you guys get these numbers

Where you guys get these numbers , company is not even up yet and you already put them down!

I would recommend that you first wait and see what the real deal will be!

I hardly believe the Buss captain makes only 36000$

I am glad to see new blood in USA airlines!

 

[bpapaDC8]

I've heard a Virgin Atlantic 747 Captain makes around 100,000 USD. Nothing to sneeze at, but not comparable to any other US international carrier.

Personally, I see Virgin America as a first step toward cabotage. Sure they're majority US owned, but don't kid yourself about who is going to be in control. Virgin gets in the door and everyone raves about the great service and low fares. Imagine the call at that point to open America's borders to British Airways, Qantas, and Emirates.

What do you think pilot pay and quality of life will be at that point? Far fetched? Maybe. Just be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

bpapa

 

[Midnight Mike]

36k, c'mon dudes, this has got to be rumor control at its worse. The airline has no base, no planes, nothing. Sheesh.

 

[shon7]

limodriver1 - my post did not state that Virgin America is hiring at 36K per year. Rather -- I am questioning -- who is there to oppose such a move if Virgin comes in with such a payscale? There will still be "aviators" willing to fly the "big birds" for this amount but consequently the industry rates will further plumett.

Finally, I am speculating lower salaries for Virgin America since Branson has time and again stated that he can run a LCC with lower costs than LUV and JBLU.


bpapaDC8-- VS pilots do make 100K per year, however, in terms of UK payscales VS pilots are probably in the lower/lowest tier? Check out some of the forums at pprune.com

 

[bpapaDC8]

shon7,

Exactly the point. Everyone talks about the Mesa versus everyone else whipsaw. Imagine the fun US Airline management could have with Virgin America. (and Emirates, British Airways if cabotage happens)

Hi everyone this is Dave Siegel, we need immediate 50% across the board pay cuts to compete with Lot Polish Airways who is coming to kill us in Philadelphia. That's it for now, I'll talk to everyone again next Friday.

bpapa

 

[swaforme]

Does anyone know where Virgin America is going to be based.

U.S. headquarters?

 

[b757driver]

Just for everyone's info, they are not up and running, have no website and have not even chosen a fleet nor corporate US HQ - yet. And they are not going to be called Virgin America.

As for David Siegel (US Airways), he resigned some weeks ago!! Read the papers or the wire.

 

[bpapaDC8]

b757driver

"As for David Siegel (US Airways), he resigned some weeks ago!! Read the papers or the wire. "


Obviously! That part of the post was meant to be facetious,which is how I'll take your post.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

I've heard a Virgin Atlantic 747 Captain makes around 100,000 USD. Nothing to sneeze at, but not comparable to any other US international carrier.

Are you familiar with the payscales at Evergreen, Atlas and Gemini?

 

[limodriver1]

well you cant compare virgin to atlas.et

Well if you think that Virgin Atlantic is wrestling in same category with atlas, gemini etc....

I think you have no idea about this business!!!

When they fly 747's does not make them comparable!

Why dont people here in Flightinfo.com think before they reply!

I think we should make access to flightinfo.com website cost some $$$$ , so we could restrict some idiots to replying here!

 

[swaforme]

Limodriver

Maybe you should go decaf.

 

[b757driver]

Well VS might not be the greatest 747 (or even A340) payer but the company is doing real fine. Last month they announced a major hiring campaign plus new routes & frequency increases in already existing ones. Seems like there is job security after all - at least overseas. Also, $100,000 a year is certainly more than many US carriers pay their pilots. While I do not condone low salaries, what would you rather have a job with some money or unemployment?

Newly outsourced 757driver, now flying heavy iron overseas

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Re: well you cant compare virgin to atlas.et

Well if you think that Virgin Atlantic is wrestling in same category with atlas, gemini etc....

I think you have no idea about this business!!!

When they fly 747's does not make them comparable!

Why dont people here in Flightinfo.com think before they reply!

I think we should make access to flightinfo.com website cost some $$$$ , so we could restrict some idiots to replying here!

When you grow a set of balls and can post using a real name come talk to me.

Otherwise you can pound sand a$$hole.

Someone said no US carrier paid close to $100/hr for a 747 CA. All I did was ask if they were familiar with the companies that have been getting away with that for years.

 

[Dizel8]

Perhaps looking at Virgin Express payrates or Virgin Blue might be more appropiate. RB, aka the "Bearded One" is a business man, if he can get employees for less, he will. Virgin Blue top Capt. pay is AUS$120K and VEX is British Pound 54K.

Considering the glut of unemployed pilots at the moment, I reckon
he can pay whatever he wishes, besides, most will look at it longer term and getting in on the ground floor on what might be a great company, who can blame them. If it works, they will be in great position, if not, they got a few bucks and had a job.

"Well VS might not be the greatest 747 (or even A340) payer but the company is doing real fine."

Well, AA, UAL, DAL etc. would be doing real fine too, if they could get away with that pay

"Also, $100,000 a year is certainly more than many US carriers pay their pilots."

Cannot think of many that pay A-340 or 747 Capt. that little, that is other than non sched or freight.

That above is not intended to be flame, but RB just does not pay much and from reading PPrune, even the crews are a bit peeved, unless they are total newbies. Compare VA to BA, quite a difference, yet RB considers himself in the same league as BA. Better yet, take a look at LH vs VA, tells the story even better.

Here are a linky to some payscales around the world www.ppjn.com.

 

[General Lee]

And Fred Reid from DL will be the guy incharge--so enjoy that. I bet they will place an order for some A320s, and then 1000 RJs---because we all know that what's left of the businessmen out there love one thing, and one thing only----"FREQUENCY......" They need flights leaving EVERY TEN MINUTES from every city. But, the wages will have to be ROCK BOTTOM for this to happen. And, you will also need to fly 20 days a month---if you are senior---and please enjoy 4 hour sits at whatever your hub is between flights. You guys are going to love Reid.

Also, Virgin Express in Europe has done poorly as of late (the last couple years) because of the proliferation of LCCs in Europe.(also the bueracracy problem of Brussels) Virgin Blue came together at a perfect time in Australia----where Ansett had just gone Chap 7 (liquidation---I don't know what it is called down there)--and ONLY Qantas was the main player there at the time. I think Reid and Branson will find it tougher---maybe more like Virgin Express---when they start up here. But, their airline will do great if it bases everything off of one key element-------FREQUENCY. Enjoy!

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[halfmoon]

When is all this Virgin America business suppose to happen? Maybe they'll pick up usairways airbus 19/20 fleet cheap. Any thought on that? I'm not an expert by any means but where are they going to get the a/c from?

 

[pilot1704]

you are so cool

When you grow a set of balls and can post using a real name come talk to me.

Otherwise you can pound sand a$$hole.

Someone said no US carrier paid close to $100/hr for a 747 CA. All I did was ask if they were familiar with the companies that have been getting away with that for years.



You guys have funny comments here, why do you people take these so personally!

This is just a message board!

First we blaming 911 , now we blaming RB and his Virgins !

Wow shows guite a lot how intelligent pilots are!

Posting your name here, smart ones dont do it since there might be some people from hiring department out here also????

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Re: you are so cool

Posting your name here, smart ones dont do it since there might be some people from hiring department out here also????

If me having an opinion would dissuade someone from hiring me then so be it. I don't choose to live my life in fear that someone wil connect me with my beliefs and opinions and then choose not to hire me. Frankly I think most captains on an interviewing committee are not that shallow. They may not agree with me but what they're really trying to figure out is how they'd like to spend a 4 day trip with me. If you can only have a good time flying with people who agree with you on everything then I feel sorry for you and the people who have to fly with you. (rhetorical statement not directed at pilot 1704)

If Limodriver wants to call someone an idiot then I think he should at least identify himself rather than hide behind a screen name.

 

[pilot1704]

I think he might be smart!

I think he (limodriver1) might be smart!

He seems like having decend opinions and at least he is not badmouthing company's or directly persons who he does not know or issues he don't have any idea. Well and I guess it is not my business anyway!

I think we are all equal and able to say our opinions!

I think pointing fingers for any directions is kind of silly!

I just personally think that talk about company's which are not operational is kind of stupid . I would love to work for Virgin USA or what ever it will be called.

Money can't be anyworse than in any regional company's at present time!

 

[Oakum_Boy]

You, sir, are a retard.

 

[sleepy]

And Fred Reid from DL will be the guy incharge--so enjoy that. I bet they will place an order for some A320s, and then 1000 RJs---because we all know that what's left of the businessmen out there love one thing, and one thing only----"FREQUENCY......" They need flights leaving EVERY TEN MINUTES from every city. But, the wages will have to be ROCK BOTTOM for this to happen. And, you will also need to fly 20 days a month---if you are senior---and please enjoy 4 hour sits at whatever your hub is between flights. You guys are going to love Reid.


That sounds like life here at ASA General. Now that Fred is gone, why am I still flying the schedule you describe?


Also, Virgin Express in Europe has done poorly as of late (the last couple years) because of the proliferation of LCCs in Europe.(also the bueracracy problem of Brussels) Virgin Blue came together at a perfect time in Australia----where Ansett had just gone Chap 7 (liquidation---I don't know what it is called down there)--and ONLY Qantas was the main player there at the time. I think Reid and Branson will find it tougher---maybe more like Virgin Express---when they start up here. But, their airline will do great if it bases everything off of one key element-------FREQUENCY. Enjoy!

Bye Bye---General Lee

I read somewhere (probably here) that the pay would be $56K for Captains and $35K for FO's, no benefits, 3 year contract, and you must already be trained in the aircraft (typed), like SWA. If true, that should give them a pretty big cost advantage over all US majors, and even SWA and AirTran.

I hope it's not true, it wouldn't even be worth leaving ASA for those wages.

 

[b757driver]

Well folks, here's the news, you've all been waiting for........

GECAS to Finance $3 Billion Aircraft Order for Virgin Group
Monday, May 03, 2004

Virgin Group Ltd., the company owned by billionaire Richard Branson, is to order more than 100 airplanes from Airbus SAS for its new low-cost U.S. airline, the Observer reported, without saying where it got its information.

Virgin will buy a mix of Airbus A319 and A320 planes in a transaction that may be worth more than $3 billion, the Observer said. The transaction will be financed by GECAS it said.

Fred Reid, the chief executive of the airline, currently known as Virgin USA, will unveil the details in New York this week, the Observer said.

 

[Dizel8]

Aviation Daily

Virgin USA To Order Aircraft, Name Base, But Launch Slips
By Steve Lott
05/03/2004 10:33:39 AM

Virgin USA plans to unveil an order this week for roughly 30 new aircraft and reveal the base of operations for the low-fare carrier, but the launch date continues to slip from the timeline executives have previously discussed.

A Virgin USA executive told The DAILY Friday that the airline planned an announcement "very early next week" but couldn't discuss details. Several sources, however, confirmed that Airbus is the frontrunner in the narrowbody campaign. Chairman Richard Branson earlier this year said he wanted to start with 10-15 planes, but sources said management now wants a larger order for growth (DAILY, Jan. 9).

Virgin also is expected to unveil the city where it will base its operations. In January, Branson said the list was narrowed to Boston, San Francisco and Washington. Dulles Airport, however, is now a distant third, largely due to Atlantic Coast's accelerated timeline to launch Independence Air. By August, Independence Air is expected to operate 300 daily flights and will be in a battle with United.

Last July, Branson said he hoped to have Virgin USA off the ground by this summer (DAILY, July 17), but the start-up has slipped significantly. He said in January that it would start in September; in March the company said it won't start until early 2005. It wasn't until March that Branson named former Delta President Fred Reid to "lead the formation" of the carrier (DAILY, March 15). The airline has yet to apply to the U.S. Transportation Dept. for certification.

 

[General Lee]

If it were between BOS and SFO, I would think SFO would win. Why? Because it has more opportunity to fly North South routes out of SFO---even though the weather in SFO can cause significant delays. I bet Arnold Swartzenegger has given Branson some tax breaks---and SFO doesn't have many LCCs---besides ATA, AWA, and Airtran. It will be interesting to watch, but I bet INDY is breathing easier.... Enjoy Fred Reid!

Bye Bye--General Lee