Who Qualifies as SIC?

[flyu27]

Our company is authorized to conduct single pilot 135 operations. However, most customers require two pilots in the aircraft. Is it "legal" for the company to put a person who is appropriately rated in the aircraft to sit in the right seat (basicaly act as a crewmember) even though they do not have a 135 ride, and just list them as an occupant of the aircraft?

 

[CUEBOAT]

they should just give the cleaning lady Helga,some stripes and a shirt and have her sit up there.

 

[English]

Our company is authorized to conduct single pilot 135 operations. However, most customers require two pilots in the aircraft. Is it "legal" for the company to put a person who is appropriately rated in the aircraft to sit in the right seat (basicaly act as a crewmember) even though they do not have a 135 ride, and just list them as an occupant of the aircraft?

They can sit in the right seat as long as they don't touch anything (gear, radios, yoke).


They can't act as a crewmember, but they can assist (point out traffic, read checklists to you, etc.)

 

[splatattack]

English is right.

 

[FlyFlyFly]

Gee, I wonder if the FARs have anything to say?

Go to www.faa.gov

click on regulations

then current regulations

then part 135

scroll to subpart e, f, g and h

or just click here and read
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=027c3b799ddc04ff5a2f9d9e95e3acc2&rgn=div6&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.4.23.5&idno=14

Let us all know whatyou come up with...

 

[Piper877]

I believe the answer you're looking for is that under 135 no person may occupy a pilot seat unless he has passed a checkride and is a crewmember or an NTSB or FAA inspector on official duties or an authorized Postal worker.

 

[English]

English is right.

I love the sound of that. Can you email that to my husband please???????

 

[splatattack]

I love the sound of that. Can you email that to my husband please???????

Just copy and paste. LOL.

 

[idratherfly4283]

If she was indeed correct, then her husband should know, however she is wrong... and most likely if her husband knows anything about this he is indeed right. Yes you can log flight time even if it is not sic certified. There are some ways to do it, but you have had to at least past your 8410 to be able to do so. After that you stretch the regs a little, the faa agrees, and bam you are logging time. If you really want to see the info on how it works pm me and I can get it for ya.

 

[pilotyip]

I would be careful on logging SIC time if your company does not have a FAA approved training and checking program for that seat. A future interviewer may question the legality of that time. I have seen guys with 200 hours of BE-200 SIC, that will promt for probing on how you got that time. If you are rated in the airplane, you can log PIC on 91 legs.

 

[aeronautic1]

Actually, a passenger CAN occupy the other pilot seat, he just cannot manipulate the controls (though my "first" flying lesson was in the right seat of an Aztec flying from Friday Harbor to Seattle on SJA @ 16). If I were you, I wouldn't be wearing a uniform occupying the right seat if there is no SIC provision in your company's ops spec. You are not even allowed to safety brief the passengers! It will only take 1 ramp check and your captain is screwed.

I believe the answer you're looking for is that under 135 no person may occupy a pilot seat unless he has passed a checkride and is a crewmember or an NTSB or FAA inspector on official duties or an authorized Postal worker.

 

[Doc Holiday]

135.113 - Basically if the aircraft has more than eight seats only qualified persons may occupy a pilot seat. Eight seats or less it is not a legal issue.

135.115 - The "unqualified person" you mention could not manipulate the flight conrols.

Legally I suppose you could stick any person in the right seat if the airplane has eight seats or less to make the customer feel better. Ethically there are issues because I'd wager you wouldn't want to tell the customer what is really going on - the "SIC" is not qualified for the operation because of the lack of compliance with 135 training and a 135.293 ride.

61.51 - Basically, the person you stick in the right couldn't log the time because an SIC is not required by the regulations. They are not allowed to legally manipulate the controls under 135, so they could not log PIC either, even if they are appropriately rated in the aircraft.

If there is something I overlooked please bring it up. Hope this helps.

 

[aeronautic1]

And...

let's not forget the provision about operable (or inoperable) autopilots and Part 135. But you still need an FAR 135.293 check to be qualified as a 135 crewmember and have an SIC program in your ops specs.

 

[splatattack]

ok everybody. most everybody is right. just trying to say the same thing but differantly because all being pilots it has blinded us into no realizing that we all read the FARs and get differant interpretations.
As I said before ENGLISH,aeronautic1,idratherfly4283, and etc. The concern whether a person can or cannot occupy the right seat that has not passed a Part135 Checkride depends on if the company has a security program or not.

PM me if there is further training needed in this area.