Who logged their Sim time during inital?

[Sc00ter]

I had about 20-25 hours of sim time during my initial (insert slow learner jokes here) on the SA-227 at Flight Safety. Countless approaches, holds, circles, and other good stuff.

The checkride reset my flight review and counted as an IPC, but was curious how you guys log that kind of stuff.

Thanks in advace,

scoot

 

[Thedude]

Log it...log it..log it...just don't count it as total time. Sims time is good for currency and that is about it.

 

[marqmarq]

Sim time

Actually, count it in the sim column and the total time. No PIC, SIC, or instrument stuff though....re 61.51(b)(2)(v)

 

[100-1/2]

Part 91 or 135?

Simuflite and others meet FAA requirements for 135.293/297 checks. Most POI's will not accept 299's in the sim. Like previous post said, Log IT...! In remarks, note 135.293/297, etc.

100-1/2

 

[Sc00ter]

Yeah, I heard that the route check must be done in the plane, but since I'm not PIC yet, no worries.

Should I log the multi as well or just total and sim?

Thanks,

scoot

 

[marqmarq]

logging

just total and sim...

 

[Sc00ter]

Re: Sim time

Actually, count it in the sim column and the total time. No PIC, SIC, or instrument stuff though....re 61.51(b)(2)(v)

Looking at 61.51(b)(3), I should be able to log the simulated instrument. 61.51(4)(g)(4) backs up the instrument time too.

It's unfortunate that the sim instructor refused to sign off the time in our logbooks.

 

[flx757]

Simulator time, unless it is required to meet the pilot time requirements for a certificate or rating (per 61.51(c) ) is NOT flight time, and therefore should NOT be logged as such. It is not total time, PIC, SIC, MEL etc. It may be used for currency...such as landing currency (provided the sim is certified for such...as in a Level C or D sim) or for instrument currency. Some may even make an argument it can be logged as simulated instrument time. However, it if were me, I would log it as simulator time ONLY, and log it if were necessary to meet the provisions of 61.51(c).

It's unfortunate that the sim instructor refused to sign off the time in our logbooks.

That's probably because he understands the regulations and knows what he is doing.

 

[marqmarq]

loggging time

This is an interesting discussion. 61.51(c) does asy

"The pilot time described in this secion may be used to: (1) Apply for a certificate or rating issued under this part; or (2) Satisfy the recent flight experience requirements of this part.

No argument with the language, but I'm unsure as to how or why you can exclude (v) sim time and not exclude (i)- (iv).

Now refer to 61.129, aeronautical experience for the commerical certificated.

Requirements are: 250 hours of flight time as a pilot;
100 hrs in powered aircraft ;
100 hrs pic
50 in airplanes
50 x-c, 10 in airplane

 

[marqmarq]

hit the wrong button

Sorry, let me continue

now go to 61.129(5)(i)(1)(i)credit of maximum of 50 hours toward the total aeronatuical experience requirement for an airplane... in 61.159(a)(3)(ii), for the ATP, 50 hours of sim time may be applied towards the instrument requirement.

61.65 (e) spells out the limitation for the use of a sim, and again certain time counts.

So you are correct when you say it applies towards a rating. Since sims are primarily used in the instrument environment and in essence are logged that way. For all working towards an ATP, logging sim time should count than as total time 'aeronautical experience'. It appears that only those that hold ATPs should not log sim time as flight time, but all others should since it counts towards the 'aeronautical experience' requirement for each of the advanced certificates and ratings....

I'd be interested in more interpretation.....

I think this is really interesting, because so many job apps are getting more and more specific such as the 'logging PIC time' versus 'acting PIC time' sections, etc. For those who don't understand this completely, go back to 61.51. A good is example is when you are a type rated SIC, and it's your leg, you are not acting as PIC, but you may log it as PIC (sole manipulator stipulation), but many airlines will want you to specifiy time that you were actually the PIC of record. These differences are both legitimate and legal.

 

[MetroSheriff]

SIM. Nothing else, just SIM.

 

[eddie]

I wouldn't log it as TT, just in the SIM column, that way you won't have to subtract it each time you fill out an application.

In the long run it just isn't that much time.

 

[skylane58]

I was just at FSI for the c425. The instructor told me I COULD log it as MEL, TT, Simulated instrument, and as dual recieved. I haven't filled in the log book yet and would like to get this straitened out first.

 

[MetroSheriff]

Folks listen...

It is your logbook. Log it however you want.

However, if you are looking at doing this for a profession, the standard accepted practice is to log it as SIM time. It is a SIM. The FAA, or an FSI or SimuFlite, or jerkwater CFI may tell you that you can. Lots of folks who have been there are telling you otherwise.

It is not a question of how you CAN log it, it is a question of how you SHOULD log it.

REPEAT: IF it is a SIM, log it as SIM. It is very simple.

That being said if you have 157 hours TT and get to ride in a MD11 sim and it makes your little pee pee stiff to log it as ME and Turbo Jet go for it. It is your log book and you will be explaining it come interview day.

Now, for the love of Pete can that please be the last time that question is asked on Flight Info. Please, Please, Please!!!!!!

 

[StaticWick]

Now, for the love of Pete can that please be the last time that question is asked on Flight Info. Please, Please, Please!!!!!! [/B]

***focus... breath in..... breath out... inhale.... exhale....
peace... calm... serenity***

Good post BTW gave me a good chuckle at the end. Now that your color has returned go check out my question on the other post.

Just remember the movie Anger Management when you read it. If you haven't seen it go get it. It was made for ppl with short fuses like myself. If you don't have a short fuse you'll fail to see the humor.


SW

 

[100LL... Again!]

WHOA!!!

Just because sim time can be APPLIED to meet some of the the requirements of the ATP, does not mean tha it IS total time.

It is SIM time being accepted IN PLACE of some of the total time.

It is not loggable as TT before the ATP, then magically unloggable after it.

Bottom line: You are INSANE to log sim as anything but sim.

There are WAY, WAY, too many interviewers who will not look upon it very well.

Even if you are right, is this the sort of discussion you want to be having at the airline interview.

Side note: If you don't have that much sim, it won't make a difference. If you DO have a lot of sim, that might bring up the issue of why you needed so much d@mn training.

 

[L.A.pilot]

Total Time=Pilot Time, but log Flight Time

14CFR 1.1
Flight time means:
(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing; or
(2) For a glider without self-launch capability, pilot time that commences when the glider is towed for the purpose of flight and ends when the glider comes to rest after landing.

61.19(b)(12)
Pilot time means that time in which a person--
(i) Serves as a required pilot flight crewmember;
(ii) Receives training from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device; or
(iii) Gives training as an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device.

Interestingly, although "total time" is not defined in the FARs, in 61.159 "total time" refers to pilot time. If someone asks how much total time you have, you can include sim/ftd time. If they ask how much flight time you have, do not include sim/ftd time.

For meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for an ATP certificate, you need "1500 hours of total time as a pilot", which is pilot time and includes simulator or FTD time. For a commercial certificate under part 61, you need "250 hours of flight time as a pilot", and that flight time does not include simulator or FTD time. Also to meet the PIC requirements for 135.243, sim and FTD do not count toward the flight time requirements of 1200 hours (or 500 for VFR operations).

Pilot time includes instruction given or received in a simulator or FTD. Flight time does not include any simulator time. If your logbook column says "Total Duration of Flight" or otherwise uses the word flight, do not include sim time. Most logbooks have one "Total Time" column, so to be consistent between logbooks, only log SIM & FTD under SIM/FTD, and log the approaches. Do not log landings, multi-engine time, simulated instrument, cross-country etc. To calculate your "Pilot time", just add the flight time and Sim/FTD time. You want the instrument time seperate because there is a limit on how much SIM/FTD time you can count towards experience requirements, and also you want to know how much instrument time you actually have in real airplanes. To calculate the total instrument time, just add SIM/FTD to actual and simulated instrument flight time.

So log FLIGHT TIME in your logbook, but total time=pilot time and includes SIM/FTD. If you logged TT in your logbook (including SIM/FTD), no biggie, just be consistent and subtract SIM/FTD from TT to get flight time. If you change to a logbook that has "Total duration of FLIGHT" etc., carry forward only the flight time and make a note of it. As long as you are consistent and accurately report your flight time, I don't think you are going to have major problems.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I agree...this is not rocket science folks..

If you fly a sim, log sim time
If you fly an airplane, log airplane time.

how hard is this concept?

spit out any regs you want or go by what the sim instructor told you (scary) -- really nobody cares what in the world you log in your logbook..

heck, if you are that hard-up for Total Time, go out to the local strip with a bic pen and start filling $hit in!..

who cares?

 

[L.A.pilot]

The second reg should be 61.1(b)(12)

 

[rettofly]

SIM. Nothing else, just SIM.

Since Sim time is received from an authorized instructor, would it not be correct to log it as Dual Received as well?

My log shows sim as SIM, DUAL REC'D and SIMULATED INSTRUMENT, but not as flight time. Am I wrong?