Who logged their Sim time during inital?

[Sc00ter]

I had about 20-25 hours of sim time during my initial (insert slow learner jokes here) on the SA-227 at Flight Safety. Countless approaches, holds, circles, and other good stuff.

The checkride reset my flight review and counted as an IPC, but was curious how you guys log that kind of stuff.

Thanks in advace,

scoot

 

[Thedude]

Log it...log it..log it...just don't count it as total time. Sims time is good for currency and that is about it.

 

[marqmarq]

Sim time

Actually, count it in the sim column and the total time. No PIC, SIC, or instrument stuff though....re 61.51(b)(2)(v)

 

[100-1/2]

Part 91 or 135?

Simuflite and others meet FAA requirements for 135.293/297 checks. Most POI's will not accept 299's in the sim. Like previous post said, Log IT...! In remarks, note 135.293/297, etc.

100-1/2

 

[Sc00ter]

Yeah, I heard that the route check must be done in the plane, but since I'm not PIC yet, no worries.

Should I log the multi as well or just total and sim?

Thanks,

scoot

 

[marqmarq]

logging

just total and sim...

 

[Sc00ter]

Re: Sim time

Actually, count it in the sim column and the total time. No PIC, SIC, or instrument stuff though....re 61.51(b)(2)(v)

Looking at 61.51(b)(3), I should be able to log the simulated instrument. 61.51(4)(g)(4) backs up the instrument time too.

It's unfortunate that the sim instructor refused to sign off the time in our logbooks.

 

[flx757]

Simulator time, unless it is required to meet the pilot time requirements for a certificate or rating (per 61.51(c) ) is NOT flight time, and therefore should NOT be logged as such. It is not total time, PIC, SIC, MEL etc. It may be used for currency...such as landing currency (provided the sim is certified for such...as in a Level C or D sim) or for instrument currency. Some may even make an argument it can be logged as simulated instrument time. However, it if were me, I would log it as simulator time ONLY, and log it if were necessary to meet the provisions of 61.51(c).

It's unfortunate that the sim instructor refused to sign off the time in our logbooks.

That's probably because he understands the regulations and knows what he is doing.

 

[marqmarq]

loggging time

This is an interesting discussion. 61.51(c) does asy

"The pilot time described in this secion may be used to: (1) Apply for a certificate or rating issued under this part; or (2) Satisfy the recent flight experience requirements of this part.

No argument with the language, but I'm unsure as to how or why you can exclude (v) sim time and not exclude (i)- (iv).

Now refer to 61.129, aeronautical experience for the commerical certificated.

Requirements are: 250 hours of flight time as a pilot;
100 hrs in powered aircraft ;
100 hrs pic
50 in airplanes
50 x-c, 10 in airplane

 

[marqmarq]

hit the wrong button

Sorry, let me continue

now go to 61.129(5)(i)(1)(i)credit of maximum of 50 hours toward the total aeronatuical experience requirement for an airplane... in 61.159(a)(3)(ii), for the ATP, 50 hours of sim time may be applied towards the instrument requirement.

61.65 (e) spells out the limitation for the use of a sim, and again certain time counts.

So you are correct when you say it applies towards a rating. Since sims are primarily used in the instrument environment and in essence are logged that way. For all working towards an ATP, logging sim time should count than as total time 'aeronautical experience'. It appears that only those that hold ATPs should not log sim time as flight time, but all others should since it counts towards the 'aeronautical experience' requirement for each of the advanced certificates and ratings....

I'd be interested in more interpretation.....

I think this is really interesting, because so many job apps are getting more and more specific such as the 'logging PIC time' versus 'acting PIC time' sections, etc. For those who don't understand this completely, go back to 61.51. A good is example is when you are a type rated SIC, and it's your leg, you are not acting as PIC, but you may log it as PIC (sole manipulator stipulation), but many airlines will want you to specifiy time that you were actually the PIC of record. These differences are both legitimate and legal.