Who is going to take the Qs?

[drinksonme]

Who'd XJT get it from?

CAL...because their pilots, like all the rest, we too good to fly RJ'S. All of XJT's original flying was organic. They were flying ATR'S, Bro's, and 1900's. When CAL pilots allowed scope of 50 seats jets, XJT came about as an ERJ operation. Do I feel for Colgan...sure, but they did take it from XJT because of cost. This is a defining moment in regional history. The cheapest failed. Going forward, management has lost the cost battle in negotiations. Being the cheapest means nothing! As a note, even though CAL pilots gave up 50 seat jets, they have held strong since. Good for them. Notice I said jets. Some mentioned the 50 seat issue with scope ....there is no scope on seats for PROPS at CAL. When scope was negotiated at CAL, Gordan Bethune idea was to have all jets at Express. Props were gone in his mind and the unions. The word props was not included because no one thought props would be an issue. As evidence, Express parked all of there props. Then Larry Kellner saw the loophole and filled it with Q's to squeeze both XJT and CAL ALPA. SkyWest aided him and then Jeff Smisek later by adding more pressure on both. CHQ was brought in when XJT management ate the shiiit and took 69 airplanes that CAL never thought they would do. In the end....XJT is owned by SKYW and still standing. CHQ and Colgan will be gone soon. The end result is the new United paying less for XJT but getting the same, if not larger service ....what they wanted in 2006. Well played management. That was a long whipsaw to get XJT cost down....but they succeeded.

Not saying this was United's plan, but they played the hands well. This is exactly why no union should ever use pilots to negotiate. The unions should use our dues for NEGOTIATORS. Lawyers, consultants, advisors...and so on. As long as unions sends pilots (who think they know how to negotiate) we will always loose. End of story. This is like sending the student counsel to Capital Hill to negotiate tax revenue for education.

 

[Baronman]

What a nice walk through memory lane!

 

[MACH-TUCK]

You guys are like vultures circling a carcass. It's very unfortunate what's happening to PINNACLE PILOTS and I for one hope they get to keep the Q's. Anyone flying those planes other than PINNACLE pilots will be benefiting from the loss of our fellow pilots. Good luck to the PINNACLE pilots, I hope something works out for you guys and you get to keep those planes and jobs.

Fixed it for ya!!

The only ones getting screwed out of this whole deal are the Pre-Merger Pinnacle pilots...Those planes should have never went to Colgan to begin with.

 

[ASADFW7]

The above post changed the members post in a quote, please do not do this. Thank you.

 

[ratherbeflyen]

CAL...because their pilots, like all the rest, we too good to fly RJ'S. All of XJT's original flying was organic. They were flying ATR'S, Bro's, and 1900's. When CAL pilots allowed scope of 50 seats jets, XJT came about as an ERJ operation. Do I feel for Colgan...sure, but they did take it from XJT because of cost. This is a defining moment in regional history. The cheapest failed. Going forward, management has lost the cost battle in negotiations. Being the cheapest means nothing! As a note, even though CAL pilots gave up 50 seat jets, they have held strong since. Good for them. Notice I said jets. Some mentioned the 50 seat issue with scope ....there is no scope on seats for PROPS at CAL. When scope was negotiated at CAL, Gordan Bethune idea was to have all jets at Express. Props were gone in his mind and the unions. The word props was not included because no one thought props would be an issue. As evidence, Express parked all of there props. Then Larry Kellner saw the loophole and filled it with Q's to squeeze both XJT and CAL ALPA. SkyWest aided him and then Jeff Smisek later by adding more pressure on both. CHQ was brought in when XJT management ate the shiiit and took 69 airplanes that CAL never thought they would do. In the end....XJT is owned by SKYW and still standing. CHQ and Colgan will be gone soon. The end result is the new United paying less for XJT but getting the same, if not larger service ....what they wanted in 2006. Well played management. That was a long whipsaw to get XJT cost down....but they succeeded.

Not saying this was United's plan, but they played the hands well. This is exactly why no union should ever use pilots to negotiate. The unions should use our dues for NEGOTIATORS. Lawyers, consultants, advisors...and so on. As long as unions sends pilots (who think they know how to negotiate) we will always loose. End of story. This is like sending the student counsel to Capital Hill to negotiate tax revenue for education.

I believe that moment came several years ago with Mesa's loss of all 50 seat jets. Now we are circling the bowl till it all flushes.

 

[nimtz]

Pass on the super regional epiphany folks. Low cost will win again very soon. Skywest Inc's long term prospects are just as screwed now as before Pinnacle BK. The '97-'08 era was the peak of regional career. Only going down from here. For you guys coming up in the last 5 years that is good news. For the career guys that claim the system was and is unfair, sorry...

 

[Sig]

This is a defining moment in regional history. The cheapest failed. Going forward, management has lost the cost battle in negotiations. Being the cheapest means nothing!

Brilliant!

I still wonder how much of this going forward is driven by the lawsuits? That's a BIG nut to cover in New York- since punitive damages can't be passed to an insurer. Did Pinnacle buy Colgan after the accident? If so, did they think making a "new" entity out of retiring the Colgam brand effectively dried the well for lawsuits? And (yet another if) if they did, that failed, and Hail Maryed their way into BK using every other excuse to get there and avoid paying out punitive damages?

Just wondering- seriously.