Who files your flight plans?

[Hogprint]

Do you fract guys think that the flight planning depts and companies mentioned above know what the preferred routes are departing New England to major destinations east and south?

/QUOTE]

zbwmy,

At one time we were issued a preferred routes manual that was probably left over from the filed our own flt plan days. I never used it because dispatch always had us filed since i've been here. The technology is out there!

Like dispatcher said, once something is in the computer it is gospel. Right or wrong!

I have nothing but praise for our dispatchers. They have helped me with everything i've ever asked of them. There was one guy, who when we went to the reduced reserve mins, gave me extra petrol without my prompting him. He was on my tail number that day and saw a pattern with me and picked up the ball and ran with it. Sure there are mistakes every now and again, but for the most part they are few and far between.

Thanks guys for your hard work!

 

[Frac Daddy]

Do you fract guys think that the flight planning depts and companies mentioned above know what the preferred routes are departing New England to major destinations east and south?

I ask this because at Boston Center we change roughly 80% of the fract flt plan proposals that pop up. Who has really flown ACK PVD HPN, or BGR HTO JFK, or BHB FXE. This is what we see. You guys are issued the new route we use from the list of preffered routes which are published.

Not complaining here, just wondering if on your trip sheets you see these dream routes listed and wonder why after getting the same re route many times, the correct route is not filed.

I have been filing for myself, so far.

I am not complaining either, but why do I get a reroute 50% of the time when I DO file the published prefered route?

And why is it when I get that reroute, about a third of the time it is the route I have already been cleared by from the begining? (Which also happens to be the prefered route). Does each Center get their own versions of flight plans? Do you find problems with plans filed with DUATS? Thanks.

 

[Alae]

Good observation, Daddy. I try to check everything when time permits, especially in the NE - NFDC Database, current SIDs/STARs, Jepp Enroute tab Hi and Lo published routes - and I STILL get "got a change to your routing, stand by to copy".

I do know that each Center has a list of (usually non-published) preferential routes to/from city pairs within the Center, sometimes modified for wx-related flow to the "dominant" airport(s) in the airspace (e.g. "West Plan, East Plan"); maybe that's the cause? For years, I've wanted to obtain all of the them and consolidate them into a single database, but haven't figured out how to do it yet, short of visiting each one in person and getting a copy (used to have one for ZOA). Then, of course, the problem becomes keeping it up to date. Also, I have no idea how one Center's preferential routes interface with their neighbors - or if.

Perhaps zbwmy can shed some light?

 

[zbwmy]

Frac...I believe all Centers get the exact same flt plans on the paper strips we use on our boards. I also can't see how using DUATS vs phoning in to FSS would create a different route. As far as getting a reroute which happens to be the original route tou were cleared on? Sometimes there is two flight strip proposals (with two different routes) sitting at the sector for the same aircraft. Tower issues one of the routes, but when you depart the computer activates the other flight strip which may have bad routing. When Center tries to give you the reroute you are already flying that route. There are other scenarios but this one is most common.

Alae...the only difference I can see between the published pref routes and what we Center controllers change is the route portion from the departure airport to a common fix on the published preferred route.
For example in New England you must depart Boston Centers airspace at specific fixes west and south to join your route. ALB SYR SAX HTO BAF ect..from within Boston Center to get to those fixes depends on where you depart. BGR to TEB? BGR..ALB.V489.COATE..TEB HYA to TEB? HYA..LFV..CELTS..BAF.V292.SAGES.V489.COATE
At some point you join up on the preferred as you can see. I will have to check to see (but I doubt) if these non-common portions of the preffered routes are published in the FDC.
Our preferential routes should not be rejected by the next Center.

Mark

 

[buttercup]

Years ago the pilots were doing their own. NJA started a dispatch department in 1999 with about a dozen part 121 licensed dispatchers. We've come a long way since then. Today we have over 30 dispatchers filing over 600+ flight plans a day and an Airspace/Noise desk with two ex-controller, licensed dispatchers who manage ATC liason and management. Right now we flight plan and file part 91, 91k, and 135 flights and later this year 121 supplemental for our NJLA program. If you have any questions call the company and ask for the airspace desk, they'll be happy to talk to you.

You guys and gals really do a wonderful job with the limited amount of staffing and resources that you have available at your disposal.. I've heard major airline dispatchers only have to work about 5 to 6 flights a day or so.. You guys handle close to ten times that amount..

 

[dsptchrnja]

You guys and gals really do a wonderful job with the limited amount of staffing and resources that you have available at your disposal.. I've heard major airline dispatchers only have to work about 5 to 6 flights a day or so.. You guys handle close to ten times that amount..

We appreciate the compliment. To put it in a little more perspective, the airlines are a little more "hands on" in terms of flight following and operational control issues. Having said that, it's not our goal to pump out as many flight releases as possible per dispatcher. We don't want to be a sweat shop. At times the workload is a serious issue. But our staffing just increased a little and we have some goals that will allow us to serve NJA crews needs a little more effectively. You will soon be able to get a release over your blackberry (don't you love retrieving faxes?), and another feature that will allow you to direct dial your dispatcher reducing the amount of phone transfers you guys have to go through just to speak to your dispatcher. Thanks again.

 

[Some Dude]

The dispatchers do a good job with the tools they have, however most of the info on the flight release is worthless. It's not their fault. It's just wrong. Second Segment climb is a useless number on the flight release.

I am always filed out of SMO with a flaps 10 departure. We never ever use flaps 10 numbers. We have to use flaps 20 out of SMO for noise abatement. Yet the release always show flaps 10. Also the wind data and temp data for takeoff is useless. It's not their fault it's just the program they have to use. We are not even allowed to use the second segment climb number on the release.

 

[dsptchrnja]

The dispatchers do a good job with the tools they have, however most of the info on the flight release is worthless. It's not their fault. It's just wrong. Second Segment climb is a useless number on the flight release.

I am always filed out of SMO with a flaps 10 departure. We never ever use flaps 10 numbers. We have to use flaps 20 out of SMO for noise abatement. Yet the release always show flaps 10. Also the wind data and temp data for takeoff is useless. It's not their fault it's just the program they have to use. We are not even allowed to use the second segment climb number on the release.

Actually I'm glad you brought up the 2nd segment climb issue. Many pilots and even ACP's aren't clear what our role is, was, or will be and it has been poorly communicated over the years - but it HAS been communicated.

A little history - with the exception of one 24 hour day a couple years ago, never in the life of the dispatch department have we been responsible for providing NJA crews with 2nd seg climb performance information. This is the only performance calculation that affects MATOW that the crew is solely responsible. There are two major reasons:

1. Training issues/Standardization. The company has about 12 fleets of a/c from 5 different manufacturers all with different AFM's. There is no standardization from the company on how to compute 2nd segment climb and each fleet seems to want it done slightly different depending on the scenario (The new FOM doesn't come close to resolving the standardization issues). Dispatchers are not fleet specific. I could be dispatching BE-400's one day and the BBJ the next - some times I have them both on the same day. Training dispatchers on each different fleet would be the last straw on an already very weighted back - which brings me to #2.

2. Workload. If we are going to add this "feature" to the release it needs to take less than 30 seconds for us to calculate it or we simply cannot handle the extra workload (Obviously there will be situations where when a problem is identified we will spend several minutes resolving the issue).

So why is it on your release? Excellent question. If it were up to me I would remove it. The data is not valid (with a few exceptions). The reason why it started showing up a couple years ago, and why I said there was one day we actually did it, was because we wanted to include it in Intellijet and provide this information to you - besides the FAA wants us to provide a valid MATOW - something the company has never accurately done on the release. All the dispatchers were trained (one way) and away we went. Well, as soon as we started using it, many software issues were discovered among other things and the next day we stopped using it and told pilots to ignore it. Well, it never got removed from the release and still shows there today. But as you probably know, this doesn't stop compitent dispatchers from taking it upon themselves to make sure there aren't limiting 2nd seg issues for your flight. We still make efforts to at least identify any potential show-stoppers.

That brings us to date. Your comments are very timely because Ops is currently in discussions to address this very issue and sometime this year the issues with standardization will be resolved, dispatchers will be appropriately trained, software issues fixed, and we'll give it another go. But you know how it is, don't hold your breath until you see the final product.

As for the flaps issue, no excuses, but sometimes it's difficult to remember all the different configurations for the different procedures out of the hundreds of airports we come out of in a day. And not all NJA a/c types change the default flap setting for the SMO departure, otherwise it would be much easier to remember. The long term goal for dispatch is to become type specific. I am personally pushing for this.

Your wind/temp data comment is innacurate, not sure what your issue is exactly. Dispatch has always provided T/O and Land numbers with zero winds and current temp after selecting the headwind rwy. If we have to select the downwind rwy then we will factor in the tailwind componant and make a note of it at the top of your 2nd page. We can and do provide you performance with any configuration of different wind/temps using UltraNav and 98% of the time it is dead accurate to the AFM - well, with the exception of a .01% conservative fudge factor.

The only confusing issue about the winds is that you used to see the wind speed from the METAR on your release and perhaps made you believe this was factored into the calculation even though it isn't. The DO recently asked us to start "zeroing out" this number for that reason. But it is still a manual process so you still may see it time to time until it gets automated.

 

[Sun Tzu]

At least we only have to remember the numbers for one jet at a time. I feel for you guys having to dispatch 7+ types of aircraft. I really hope the Blackberry's eliminate some useless paperwork that is generated everytime. The brief sheets are another big waste of space, but that is not your area. Sorry to digress.

 

[Some Dude]

Wow dispatcher that was your best post yet. I do applaud the fact that you are trying to make your job more accurate. Thanks for the info. How many flights do you have to do a day? I was told 50 to 60 a day. Is that right?

 

[JEEPPLR]

Wow dispatcher that was your best post yet. I do applaud the fact that you are trying to make your job more accurate. Thanks for the info. How many flights do you have to do a day? I was told 50 to 60 a day. Is that right?

That's about right. Some days more some days less.

 

[Lie_n_wait01]

Coo!!!!!!!

Years ago the pilots were doing their own. NJA started a dispatch department in 1999 with about a dozen part 121 licensed dispatchers. We've come a long way since then. Today we have over 30 dispatchers filing over 600+ flight plans a day and an Airspace/Noise desk with two ex-controller, licensed dispatchers who manage ATC liason and management. Right now we flight plan and file part 91, 91k, and 135 flights and later this year 121 supplemental for our NJLA program. If you have any questions call the company and ask for the airspace desk, they'll be happy to talk to you.

Hey, Thumbs ups....DISPATCHERS UNITE!!!!

 

[Lie_n_wait01]

Got a Question

Being a Center controller, I am interested in who files the flight plans for the fractionals? Years ago we used to think EJA pilots were doing their own.
Is this function contracted out or does each company have their own dispatchers doing it?

How often are our Flight Plans acutally "Filed As Planned". From what i hear most of them are changed during clearence. What do you know??
Thanks

 

[Lie_n_wait01]

Controller when you see us with a flight plan for a cruise altitude of FL390 between TEB and HPN you know the pilots didn't file it. Oh yea when you try to clear us over the water route but we tell you that we need a reroute over land it's because the pilots have to fly a LEGAL route. We didn't file the flight plan. So please be patient.

Truth is the our dispatch at "Exec Jet" is overworked and understaffed. Bascially they only have time to flie the plan not much time to prepare a proper flight plan.

So if you see us filed through a level 6 squall line to a closed airport please be patient with our request for a reroute.

Im with ya. My limited experience within the compnay tells me that yes we are dispatchers however with a great emphasis on the Dis-(PATCH) part..does that make any sense?

 

[Lie_n_wait01]

You must be one of the unhappy ones!

I'm with Dep676. It sucks. Wrong airport, wrong altitude, wrong times, not there at all.....
And by the way...the only reason the company is trying this 'file our flight plans for us' routine...so they can give us shorter turn times.

Love the Optimizium...if the plans are so bad file'um yourself, just let the Dispatchers know before had so that we can reduce our overworked load!!!
Thanks

 

[Lie_n_wait01]

Hey ProFrac....mind if i steal your quote?

"I LOVE aviation! It's the people and the airplanes I can't stand..."

 

[Lie_n_wait01]

Fltplng...!!!!

Intellijet and routedata base, Enough said!