PURPLEHAZE21
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Who cares about nwa sleeping pilots, they did not crash!!!
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Sleep study will now be required for 1st class med....get ready. Mild sleep apnea = no medical.
"Northwest 188 Cleveland Center...over."
IamGumbyDammit
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ACL65PILOT
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WASHINGTON — The first officer of the Northwest Airlines jet that missed its destination by 150 miles says there was no disagreement in the cockpit, neither he nor the captain was napping and the passengers were never in any danger.
But in an interview with The Associated Press two days after he and a colleague blew past their destination as air traffic controllers tried frantically to reach them, pilot Richard Cole would not say just what it was that led to them to forget to land Flight 188.
"We were not asleep; we were not having an argument; we were not having a fight," Cole told the AP.
Air traffic controllers and pilots tried for more than an hour Wednesday night to contact Cole and the flight's captain, Timothy B. Cheney, of Gig Harbor, Washington state, using radio, cell phone and data messages.
On the ground, concerned officials alerted National Guard jets to prepare to chase the airliner from two locations, though none of the military planes left the runway.
"It was not a serious event, from a safety issue," Cole said in front of his Salem, Oregon, home. "I would tell you more, but I've already told you way too much."
Unfortunately, the cockpit voice recorder may not tell the tale.
New recorders retain as much as two hours of cockpit conversation and other noise, but the older model aboard Northwest's Flight 188 includes just the last 30 minutes — only the very end of Wednesday night's flight after the pilots realized their error over Wisconsin and were heading back to Minneapolis.
Cole would not discuss why it took so long for the pilots to respond to radio calls, "but I can tell you that airplanes lose contact with the ground people all the time. It happens. Sometimes they get together right away; sometimes it takes awhile before one or the other notices that they are not in contact."
A police report released Friday said the pilots passed breathalyzer tests and were apologetic after the flight. Cheney and Cole had just started their work week and were coming off a 19-hour layover, the Minneapolis Star Tribune reported Saturday, citing an internal Northwest document it said was described to the newspaper.
The police report said that the crew indicated they had been having a heated discussion about airline policy.
But aviation safety experts and other pilots were deeply skeptical they could have become so distracted by shop talk that they forgot to land an airplane carrying 144 passengers. The most likely possibility, they said, is that the pilots simply fell asleep somewhere along their route from San Diego.
"It certainly is a plausible explanation," said Bill Voss, president of the Flight Safety Foundation in Alexandria, Virginia.
Cheney and Cole have been suspended and are to be interviewed by National Transportation Safety Board investigators next week. The airline, acquired last year by Delta Air Lines, is also investigating. Messages left at Cheney's home were not returned.
FAA spokesman Tony Molinaro said in general, an unsafe condition created by a pilot could lead to the suspension of the person's pilot license and possibly a civil penalty.
With worries about terrorists still high, even after contact was re-established, air traffic controllers asked the crew to prove who they were by executing turns.
"Controllers have a heightened sense of vigilance when we're not able to talk to an aircraft. That's the reality post-9/11," said Doug Church, a spokesman for the National Air Traffic Controllers Association.
NTSB spokesman Keith Holloway said fatigue and cockpit distraction will be looked into. Investigators were in the process Saturday of scheduling interviews with the pilots, he said.
Audio from the cockpit voice recorder was downloaded at NTSB headquarters on Friday, Holloway said, adding that investigators may have more information about the content on Monday.
During the flight, the pilots were finally alerted to their situation when a flight attendant called on an intercom from the cabin.
Voss said a special concern was that the many safety checks built into the aviation system to prevent incidents like this one — or to correct them quickly — apparently were ineffective until the very end.
Not only couldn't air traffic controllers and other pilots raise the Northwest pilots for an hour, but the airline's dispatcher should have been trying to reach them as well. The three flight attendants onboard should have questioned why there were no preparations for landing being made. Brightly lit cockpit displays should have warned the pilots it was time to land.
"It's probably something you would say never would happen if this hadn't just happened," Voss said.
But in an interview with The Associated Press two days after he and a colleague blew past their destination as air traffic controllers tried frantically to reach them, pilot Richard Cole would not say just what it was that led to them to forget to land Flight 188.
"We were not asleep; we were not having an argument; we were not having a fight," Cole told the AP.
Air traffic controllers and pilots tried for more than an hour Wednesday night to contact Cole and the flight's captain, Timothy B. Cheney, of Gig Harbor, Washington state, using radio, cell phone and data messages.
On the ground, concerned officials alerted National Guard jets to prepare to chase the airliner from two locations, though none of the military planes left the runway.
"It was not a serious event, from a safety issue," Cole said in front of his Salem, Oregon, home. "I would tell you more, but I've already told you way too much."
Unfortunately, the cockpit voice recorder may not tell the tale.
New recorders retain as much as two hours of cockpit conversation and other noise, but the older model aboard Northwest's Flight 188 includes just the last 30 minutes — only the very end of Wednesday night's flight after the pilots realized their error over Wisconsin and were heading back to Minneapolis.
Cole would not discuss why it took so long for the pilots to respond to radio calls, "but I can tell you that airplanes lose contact with the ground people all the time. It happens. Sometimes they get together right away; sometimes it takes awhile before one or the other notices that they are not in contact."
A police report released Friday said the pilots passed breathalyzer tests and were apologetic after the flight. Cheney and Cole had just started their work week and were coming off a 19-hour layover, the Minneapolis Star Tribune reported Saturday, citing an internal Northwest document it said was described to the newspaper.
The police report said that the crew indicated they had been having a heated discussion about airline policy.
But aviation safety experts and other pilots were deeply skeptical they could have become so distracted by shop talk that they forgot to land an airplane carrying 144 passengers. The most likely possibility, they said, is that the pilots simply fell asleep somewhere along their route from San Diego.
"It certainly is a plausible explanation," said Bill Voss, president of the Flight Safety Foundation in Alexandria, Virginia.
Cheney and Cole have been suspended and are to be interviewed by National Transportation Safety Board investigators next week. The airline, acquired last year by Delta Air Lines, is also investigating. Messages left at Cheney's home were not returned.
FAA spokesman Tony Molinaro said in general, an unsafe condition created by a pilot could lead to the suspension of the person's pilot license and possibly a civil penalty.
With worries about terrorists still high, even after contact was re-established, air traffic controllers asked the crew to prove who they were by executing turns.
"Controllers have a heightened sense of vigilance when we're not able to talk to an aircraft. That's the reality post-9/11," said Doug Church, a spokesman for the National Air Traffic Controllers Association.
NTSB spokesman Keith Holloway said fatigue and cockpit distraction will be looked into. Investigators were in the process Saturday of scheduling interviews with the pilots, he said.
Audio from the cockpit voice recorder was downloaded at NTSB headquarters on Friday, Holloway said, adding that investigators may have more information about the content on Monday.
During the flight, the pilots were finally alerted to their situation when a flight attendant called on an intercom from the cabin.
Voss said a special concern was that the many safety checks built into the aviation system to prevent incidents like this one — or to correct them quickly — apparently were ineffective until the very end.
Not only couldn't air traffic controllers and other pilots raise the Northwest pilots for an hour, but the airline's dispatcher should have been trying to reach them as well. The three flight attendants onboard should have questioned why there were no preparations for landing being made. Brightly lit cockpit displays should have warned the pilots it was time to land.
"It's probably something you would say never would happen if this hadn't just happened," Voss said.
If the "professionals" did their job, nothing noteworthy would have happened in the first place.
-Dang regional scum!
b707guy
Analog Kid
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2007
- Posts
- 520
Would answering the cell phone constitute a firing offense? I wouldn't have answered!
It's not uncommon to go a half hour or so in the middle of the night without hearing a peep from a controller or other aircraft checking in, but someone usually breaks the ice by asking "still there?". Over an hour, daytime? They must not have had 121.5 tuned up, either...
ACL65PILOT
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scoreboardII
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- Apr 15, 2008
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- 2,694
The airbus has no "bing-bong" audio indication of an ACARS message. ACARS messages are displayed by a "Company Message" line indication on the ECAM display and is totally silent. You can't hear it, so if you don't see it you will not respond it. Draw your own conclusions.
Scope out RJ's
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Scope out RJ's
Well-known member
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- Posts
- 1,926
Aussiegirl:
You can't be serious in any of your posts, can you?
Look at the experience level required to get hired by NW (or any major/legacy) compared to that ******************** hole xj (or any other regional)?
The regionals are infested with inexperienced hand jobs such as yourself, and thus the congressional hearings which will lead to hiring more people with more experience than just a pulse. I guess you got lucky and squeaked in before they start requiring just a heart beat to fill a seat!
aussieflyboy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2006
- Posts
- 237
I'm not talking about NWA crews as a whole, ****-for-brains, I'm specifically talking about THIS crew on THIS flight. Anyone who can't see that they were lucky to get to MSP isn't very astute.
As for the rest of your drivel, I'm not even going to rebut it, it's just not worth my time and effort.
You have no idea my background or history, your posts in previous threads prove you're nothing but an arrogant little skidmark on the toilet bowl of the aviation industry. Nothing you say merits attention.
Scope out RJ's
Well-known member
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- May 31, 2006
- Posts
- 1,926
Your jealousy is so transparent, it's laughable!:laugh:
All that experience as an xj f/o. The FAA could use a good ****************************** like you to help fry the rest of aviation!
That's because you can't afford neither as an xj f/a!
That's not what your mom tells me after I tuck you into bed!
And after all, all that experience as a regional f/o at some bottom feeder does merit attention!:laugh:
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