Which reginal treats it's employees'....

[JeremyAV8R]

Which Reginal Airlines treat it's pilots best? Contract, pay, schedule, Etc. Also, which Reginal Airlines, do you predict, to grow, and be stable."Looking in the crystal ball," if needed.

I'm just interested in hearing what your experiances are, along with the facts about their policys'.

Jeremy

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

AIR WISCONSIN

They have by far and away the best contract, they are growing, they are hiring. They have the only (I think) 100% company funded "B" plan retirement plan-like AA/UAL, etc.

In my opinion, the next group is ACA/ASA/Comair/SkyWest/Horizon - they are all good.

Cliff
GRB

 

[Beechnut]

Air Wis is a good place to be, but we do not have a company funded "B" plan.

S.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I've read about the company funded retirement plan in several places, I guess wrongly?

There is none at all, only a 401K like everyone else?

Was this proposed in the contract talks and didn't get in?

Has this been discussed for the future?

Please let me know/give details. If this is wrong, I need to correct this info for some people.

Cliff
GRB

 

[Rotorhead]

They HAD one....it went away with the last contract

 

[Andy Neill]

I guess this will go into the "Can you top this?" category. Let me give some scenarios that highlight the Policy Manual provisions at SkyWest:

A. You are scheduled to do six legs of an hour each. Your actual times for alternate legs are 1:10 and 0:50 due to head/tail winds. At SkyWest, you will be paid for scheduled or actual, whichever is higher on a leg by leg basis. So you will actually fly 6:00 but get paid for 6:30.

B. You are scheuled to fly two legs at the end of the day for 2:00 but, due to weather or maintenance, the flights are cancelled. You are paid for the trips.

C. You have a very strange schedule of 9 days of 1:30 flight time and 9 days of 7:30 flight time. As a minimum, you will be paid 3:45 for the light days and 7:30 for the heavy days for a total of 101:15 for flying 81 hours. This highlights the presence of a TRUE minimum daily as opposed to the 30 day lookback variety.

Although SkyWest does not have ALL the features that some contracts have (commuter policy, trip rig, etc.) I think that it has the BEST overall package dollar for dollar for comparable aircraft (CRJ and Brasilia) for the pilot group than can be found anywhere.

Those who would dispute this might want to start with the figures paid for A, B, and C scenarios at their airline operating CRJ and or Brasilia.

 

[Lampshade]

Air Wisconsins retirement plan has a 4% company contributuion of your annual salary to the 401k plus up to a 3% match of your annual salary to your 401k if you contribute 7% or more. This is a total of 7% of you annual salary into a 401k this goes up to 8% 01/01/2004.


Lampshade

 

[Andy Neill]

SkyWest's 401k is a 1:1 match for the first 2% at 1 year, the first 4% at 5 years and the first 6% at 10 years. In addition, employees with over 2 years share in the distribution of 5% of the company annual profits in the 401k. This amounted to about 3% of annual pay last year and 4-5% the year before that.

With that, an old timer at SkyWest could get 9-11% from the company by contributing 6%. At Air Wisconsin, it sounds as if one would need to contribute 7% to get 8% next year. A new guy (over 2 years) at SkyWest could get 5% from the company by contributing 2% or 3% by contributing nothing. Did I give the right figures on the Air Wisconsin side?

 

[JeremyAV8R]

How much can you make working for a reginal? If you don't mind me asking. Is it a huge chunk less than the Majors? What are the diffrences?

 

[rightrudder]

At Air Wisconsin, you don't have to contribute a single cent to get a 4% of your salary + overtime company contribution to a 401k plan. That is regardless of company profits. It is company funded.

 

[nimtz]

Although SkyWest does not have ALL the features that some contracts have (commuter policy, trip rig, etc.) I think that it has the BEST overall package dollar for dollar for comparable aircraft (CRJ and Brasilia) for the pilot group than can be found anywhere.

By the time we are all said and done with negotiations at Expressjet, your 'Policy Manual' will be what it really is; a pathetic joke. It's time for small jet pilots to step up and with the addition of 300+ furlought mainline pilots to our seniority list, I believe Expressjet will get the job done. Skywest needs a union, plain and simple, or else you will become the new CHQ that management uses to whipsaw around.

 

[Andy Neill]

So to make sure I understand, how much would an Air Wisconsin pilot need to contribute to get 9-11% from the company in his 401k?

By the time we are all said and done with negotiations at Expressjet, your 'Policy Manual' will be what it really is; a pathetic joke.

Eager to see what you come up with. We are all for keeping pressure on the top end. SkyWest will be negotiating the pay package in the spring and it looks like Horizon and company will be the standard to match. We'll see.

 

[rightrudder]

Andy,

I'm not trying to get into a "my airline has a better contract than your airline" confrontation here. There are aspects of my airline's agreement that are just as good if not better than yours, and i'm sure that is true that there are some areas that are better in your Company's agreement.

I just wanted to clarify that we do in fact get a guaranteed level of retirement benefit, since there was some discussion earlier of that subject. That's all.

And Mr. Expressjet, you need to show some class. Obviously, Skywest pilots and management are able to work together in a mutually beneficial manner. Their wages and benefits are at least industry standard. In fact, Skywest and ACA both cost UAL more than Air Wisconsin does, so don't think that the lack of a union contract somehow makes them less expensive for major partners to use.

I keep hearing from a number of Expressjet guys how you are going to come up with the greatest contract ever. Given your company's and pilot group's contract history, I would be surprised if that happens. Nevertheless, good luck with your negotiations.

RR

 

[Lampshade]

Andy,

Did you ever work for Enron? You can't retire on "coulds"! What exactly does Skywest provide for retirement. At Wisconsin everyone gets the benefits not just old "timers".

Pilot Elective Deferral------- Company Matching Contribution
3% -4%----------------------------------------1%
5% -6%----------------------------------------2%
7 % + ----------------------------------------3%

Plus the 4% company paid contribution

You put in 7% or more, company matches 3%+4%=7% you put in 0% company still gives you 4%. So the max is 7% right now ('04 goes up to 8%) but it's available right away to the pilots you do not have to wait 10 years.

Thats how I see it.

Lampshade

 

[Andy Neill]

Never worked for Enron and missed the "can't retire on clouds" reference but not a big deal.

I agree that it is good to get the maximum company contribution from the beginning rather than having to wait 10 years to max (or 5 years to match AW). You may have misunderstood that SkyWest 401k contributions gfrom the company and the worker are also 100% vested from day 1.

I think I allowed for specific aspects of our respective agreements having better or lesser features, but I remain with my assertion that I believe the best overall package on compensation and benefits for Brasilia and CRJ operators resides at SkyWest. YMMV.

 

[cheezpilot]

Mr. Neill
At AWAC we have A,B,and C plus duty/trip rig. Also, we have the BAe-146 so retirement is an option and the old timers can move above the CRJ payscale. The only bad part is those union dues we pay. Don't get me wrong. I think AWAC would not be in the position it is today without the union. It is just the great equalizer as far as the take home check goes. I was wondering what you mean by Skywest being the best compensated carrier for the EMB 120 and CRJ. Is that aircraft specific, because I think maybe ASA is the only other operator with those two types now. It isn't saying much. I think that AWAC has the best overall compensation package for carriers with the DO-328 and the CRJ. That says nothing because we are the only ones with those two types.
later, cheez

 

[Andy Neill]

Please call me Andy.

On A, B, and C, I was more interested in what the actual pay would be at Air Wisconsin for those scenarios rather than if you had a minimum duty guarantee.

When I specify Brasilia and CRJ, I intended to do apples to apples comparisons rather than rates for Brasilia vs Dash-8. So if you have Brasilia OR CRJ, how do your Brasilia OR CRJ rates and duty rules stack up against SkyWest's.

I don't intend to imply that my self esteem is based on having the best work rules or rates. I am genuinely interested as a professional in what the market is paying and requiring among our competitors. For instance, Comair pays a great deal more for a first year CRJ FO than SkyWest does, but I think the SkyWest CRJ pilot does better as a group under SkyWest scales than it would under Comair scales.

SkyWest CRJ scales can be found under the Compensation and Benefits tab at

http://www.skywestpilot.com/interview

Are Air Wisconsin CRJ rates better than these?

 

[Lampshade]

You decide Andy


Skywest
CL-65 CAPTAINS

Years of Service
6/28/2002

1 $56.03
2 $$57.77
3 $59.54
4 $61.40
5 $63.29
6 $65.25
7 $67.27
8 $69.35
9 $$71.49
10 $73.71
11 $75.98
12 $78.33
13 $80.76
14 $83.25
15 $85.83
16 $88.40
17 $91.05
18 $92.87


Effective August 1, 2002 Longevity
Air Wisconsin
Years
CA CL-65 Ca BAe-146
0-1 56.59
1-2 58.35 70.02
2-3 60.14 72.17
3-4 62.01 74.41
4-5 63.93 76.71
5-6 65.90 79.08
6-7 67.94 81.53
7-8 70.04 84.05
8-9 72.21 86.65
9-10 74.44 89.33
10-11 76.74 92.09
11-12 79.11 94.94
12-13 81.57 97.88
13-14 84.09 100.90
14-15 86.69 104.03
15-16 89.29 107.15
16-17 91.97 110.36
17-18 -----113.67
18-19 -----117.08
19-20 -----120.59

 

[Andy Neill]

Now THERE'S some useful information. Thanks. It looks like Air Wisconsin CRJ rates are 101% of SkyWest rates. I presume the same is true for FO's? Good info!

Could an Air Wisconsin pilot provide the answers for A, B, and C as illustrated above (6:30, 2:00, and 101:15 at SkyWest)?

 

[rightrudder]

Andy,

We could go around and around citing the respective provisions of our work agreements trying to outdo one another. As I previously stated, there are probably some aspects of your agreement that are better than ours, there are aspects of our contract that are better than yours. No one from air wisconsin has said one bad word about your company in this thread.

Relax, and be happy that you work for a great company. We are proud of ours as well.

RR

 

[Beechnut]

The same is true for FO rates. It looks as though both SkyWest and AirWis pilots would benefit from your A, B, and C, scenarios, as we too would receive the same compensation. The only difference is that our minimum day is 3 hours, not 3:45. Factor in the 3.5 for 1 Trip Rig and the 2 for 1 Duty Rig, and I imagine the pay is similar.

I hope this isn't turning into a "My phallic is bigger than yours" competition.

S.

 

[Andy Neill]

Thanks for the additional info. By my computations then, I see 6:30, 2:00, and 99:00 at Air Wisconsin.

Rather than being an exercise in chest beating, I sincerely believe that disclosure of contracts among pilots is beneficial for all. It provides the pilot community ammunition with which to bargain for better work rules and pay rates come contract negotiation time.

While SkyWest does have a 2:1 duty rig, it does not - as I previously have said - have a trip rig. Air Wisconsin's provides about 6.9 hours per 24 guarantee with the 3.5:1. USUALLY, the duty rig would cover the trip abuses but I can see where it would be handy at times.

 

[JeremyAV8R]

Anyone have a clue when CoEx will be hiring again?

 

[mckpickle]

Anyone have a clue when CoEx will be hiring again?

My opinion and 1.50$ will get you a cup of cofee.................My guess 2005 at the earliest.


And speaking of 401 K's Express Jet has a dollar for dollar match up to 5% of pay. Ie if you deposit 5% of your pay they will match it every quarter. They just put about a grand in my acount the other day. Turns into about 3-4k a year.

 

[Jetsnake]

The reality of it is this,
AWAC pays you the better of 5 ways.
The most being trip rig, if you know what
that is; that's great. if not, send me a letter.
I'll explain it.

MGT. does not F#ck with the pilot group at all.

If you fly from ORD to SBN,
About 15 minutes and spend the night from 8:00AM
till 7:00AM the next morning your going to get paid good
at AWAC.
Trip Rig is based on time away from base.
If you have 2 legs worth 5 1/2 hours and your gone from
base for 24 hours. AWAC pays .238/or 6:52 hours during
that 24 period.

There are many variables involved, but AWAC pays the best
as far as what we fly and still makes money.

That is a good thing, While we don't have schedules like I
mentioned above anymore, AWAC is a great place to be,
and harder to get into right now.

The last class of new hires had 3 US AIR pilot's.
Can you see the writing on the wall's.

We had a Eagle F/O jumpseat last month, he's has been
in ORD for 3 years and is still a reserve pilot.
I almost gagged at what he was making.

For right now, Submit your resume to AWAC.

www.airwis.com

You'll do your self a favor.

Jetsnake

 

[Jeepman]

Mr Nimitz,


You call our policy manual a "pathetic joke" And your company, Express Jets, will soon be the industry leader? I will admit there may be some advantages to a union, but if our management "whipsaws" us then explain this to me. How is it possible:

1) A 2nd year SKYW RJ F.O. makes more than a 4th year Mesa F.O. (which is ALPA)

2) We have a forum where we can ask questions directly to senior management and get a response

3) When US Air came to us with their j4j proposal management let the pilots vote on it. Even when it mean't that if we voted it down (which we did) it would harm future RJ deliveries.

We may not be at the top of the food chain, but we are in the upper tiers for compensation. I am sure that your company cares alot about you which is why you know so much about "whipsawing" and you will get the best deal......oh wait I thought it was April 1st.

 

[Socalplt]

Jetsnake,

In the example you gave a Skywest pilot would receive a minimum of 7:30 of pay. (Daily guarantee of 3:45)

 

[Andy Neill]

Nice catch, Socalplt.

 

[rightrudder]

Since the person who started the thread asked which regionals treat their employees well, I thought i'd add my opinion of my employer, Air Wisconsin. I think we are treated very well and have a very good relationship with management.

We are compensated fairly, of course, who wouldn't want more, but pay isn't the only consideration in the entire package. Below is a summary of some of the good features of our compensation package.

We are paid 75 hours guarantee while in training, also whether or not you are reserve or lineholder, for any aircraft. I think some other carriers have lower guarantee if you are on reserve or pay a higher guarantee for some aircraft than others.

As beaten into the ground in this thread, we have excellent min day, duty day and trip rigs that help with our pay. 100% pay for any cancellations, 100% for deadheading, 150% for picking up time or if required to fly extra.

Also discussed in great detail here is our retirement, 4% of earnings per year put into a 401 K for each pilot. Plus, 401K matching from 1% to 3%, increasing to 4% 1/2004.

Paid FAA medical exams, headset reimbursement, paid uniform allowance once off probation.

12 days off per month minimum (reserve or linholder), at least 2 blocks of 3 off in a row per bid, but no fewer than 2 off in a row.

Job protection once off probation, if you screw up a training event whether pc or upgrade, you aren't fired, get 3 chances to pass or resume prior position. I know some carriers fire you if you fail a pc or upgrade.

One week vacation 1st year, 2 weeks 2nd year on up to 5 weeks per year.

I can't compare our treatment to most other carriers (except Horizon, where I used to work prior to their new contract) since I obviously don't work at the others, but I think it's pretty darn good. If others do better than this, than more power to them!

RR

 

[Jetsnake]

In the example you gave a Skywest pilot would receive a minimum of 7:30 of pay. (Daily guarantee of 3:45) [/B]

Sorry, but I didn't even quote Skywest pay rates.
Don't know anything about them.

Jetsnake