Which reginal treats it's employees'....

[Beechnut]

The same is true for FO rates. It looks as though both SkyWest and AirWis pilots would benefit from your A, B, and C, scenarios, as we too would receive the same compensation. The only difference is that our minimum day is 3 hours, not 3:45. Factor in the 3.5 for 1 Trip Rig and the 2 for 1 Duty Rig, and I imagine the pay is similar.

I hope this isn't turning into a "My phallic is bigger than yours" competition.

S.

 

[Andy Neill]

Thanks for the additional info. By my computations then, I see 6:30, 2:00, and 99:00 at Air Wisconsin.

Rather than being an exercise in chest beating, I sincerely believe that disclosure of contracts among pilots is beneficial for all. It provides the pilot community ammunition with which to bargain for better work rules and pay rates come contract negotiation time.

While SkyWest does have a 2:1 duty rig, it does not - as I previously have said - have a trip rig. Air Wisconsin's provides about 6.9 hours per 24 guarantee with the 3.5:1. USUALLY, the duty rig would cover the trip abuses but I can see where it would be handy at times.

 

[JeremyAV8R]

Anyone have a clue when CoEx will be hiring again?

 

[mckpickle]

Anyone have a clue when CoEx will be hiring again?

My opinion and 1.50$ will get you a cup of cofee.................My guess 2005 at the earliest.


And speaking of 401 K's Express Jet has a dollar for dollar match up to 5% of pay. Ie if you deposit 5% of your pay they will match it every quarter. They just put about a grand in my acount the other day. Turns into about 3-4k a year.

 

[Jetsnake]

The reality of it is this,
AWAC pays you the better of 5 ways.
The most being trip rig, if you know what
that is; that's great. if not, send me a letter.
I'll explain it.

MGT. does not F#ck with the pilot group at all.

If you fly from ORD to SBN,
About 15 minutes and spend the night from 8:00AM
till 7:00AM the next morning your going to get paid good
at AWAC.
Trip Rig is based on time away from base.
If you have 2 legs worth 5 1/2 hours and your gone from
base for 24 hours. AWAC pays .238/or 6:52 hours during
that 24 period.

There are many variables involved, but AWAC pays the best
as far as what we fly and still makes money.

That is a good thing, While we don't have schedules like I
mentioned above anymore, AWAC is a great place to be,
and harder to get into right now.

The last class of new hires had 3 US AIR pilot's.
Can you see the writing on the wall's.

We had a Eagle F/O jumpseat last month, he's has been
in ORD for 3 years and is still a reserve pilot.
I almost gagged at what he was making.

For right now, Submit your resume to AWAC.

www.airwis.com

You'll do your self a favor.

Jetsnake

 

[Jeepman]

Mr Nimitz,


You call our policy manual a "pathetic joke" And your company, Express Jets, will soon be the industry leader? I will admit there may be some advantages to a union, but if our management "whipsaws" us then explain this to me. How is it possible:

1) A 2nd year SKYW RJ F.O. makes more than a 4th year Mesa F.O. (which is ALPA)

2) We have a forum where we can ask questions directly to senior management and get a response

3) When US Air came to us with their j4j proposal management let the pilots vote on it. Even when it mean't that if we voted it down (which we did) it would harm future RJ deliveries.

We may not be at the top of the food chain, but we are in the upper tiers for compensation. I am sure that your company cares alot about you which is why you know so much about "whipsawing" and you will get the best deal......oh wait I thought it was April 1st.

 

[Socalplt]

Jetsnake,

In the example you gave a Skywest pilot would receive a minimum of 7:30 of pay. (Daily guarantee of 3:45)

 

[Andy Neill]

Nice catch, Socalplt.

 

[rightrudder]

Since the person who started the thread asked which regionals treat their employees well, I thought i'd add my opinion of my employer, Air Wisconsin. I think we are treated very well and have a very good relationship with management.

We are compensated fairly, of course, who wouldn't want more, but pay isn't the only consideration in the entire package. Below is a summary of some of the good features of our compensation package.

We are paid 75 hours guarantee while in training, also whether or not you are reserve or lineholder, for any aircraft. I think some other carriers have lower guarantee if you are on reserve or pay a higher guarantee for some aircraft than others.

As beaten into the ground in this thread, we have excellent min day, duty day and trip rigs that help with our pay. 100% pay for any cancellations, 100% for deadheading, 150% for picking up time or if required to fly extra.

Also discussed in great detail here is our retirement, 4% of earnings per year put into a 401 K for each pilot. Plus, 401K matching from 1% to 3%, increasing to 4% 1/2004.

Paid FAA medical exams, headset reimbursement, paid uniform allowance once off probation.

12 days off per month minimum (reserve or linholder), at least 2 blocks of 3 off in a row per bid, but no fewer than 2 off in a row.

Job protection once off probation, if you screw up a training event whether pc or upgrade, you aren't fired, get 3 chances to pass or resume prior position. I know some carriers fire you if you fail a pc or upgrade.

One week vacation 1st year, 2 weeks 2nd year on up to 5 weeks per year.

I can't compare our treatment to most other carriers (except Horizon, where I used to work prior to their new contract) since I obviously don't work at the others, but I think it's pretty darn good. If others do better than this, than more power to them!

RR

 

[Jetsnake]

In the example you gave a Skywest pilot would receive a minimum of 7:30 of pay. (Daily guarantee of 3:45) [/B]

Sorry, but I didn't even quote Skywest pay rates.
Don't know anything about them.

Jetsnake

 

[CaptOtis]

I can offer some info. on Horizon--

It seems to come up as a great regional often on these lists so maybe some facts are in order.

The positives:
1) We do have an excellent 401(k). Company matches dollar for dollar up to 10%. Hard to find that in this industry or many others.

2) We have an "industry leading contract". The high end jet captains can make up to 118/hour. Just be prepared to grow old waiting for a jet captain slot.
3) We get to fly by Mt. Rainier in the great northwest on a daily basis.
4) We have 15 CRJ-700s. 15 more on order by end of '05. Good destinations like Calgary, Montana, Arizona, California.
5) We have duty rigs.
6) Did I mention you get to fly by Mt. Rainier?
7) We have excellent crew meals. Really!


The negatives:
1) The F/Os get paid by seniority regardless of what they fly. So senior F/Os who stay in the Dash-8 (200 or 400) can make jet pay while jet F/Os make Dash pay. I realize this is how most companies start for the first year, bet it never ends as long as you are an F/O. In fact your pay may fluctuate from bid to bid depending on how many RJs, Dash 8-400s, and Dash 8-200s there are and how many F/Os are flying each. Sound complicated? You are right. Sometimes it is hard to plan a budget on a moving paycheck.

2) We used to have four crew bases, now only two: Portland and Seattle. And the Seattle base is only a small Dash-8 200 base. So if you don't live anywhere near Portland, commute or move. It will never change.

3) Upgrades? The glacier on Mt. Rainier moves faster. New hires can plan on at least 4-5 years. I've been here nearly three and have 2-3 to go to upgrade into a Dash 8. Supposedly they will start moving when we buy some new planes, but no announcement yet. Watch this space!

4) We get paid scheduled vice actual and not the higher of the two. Holding, weather, diverts, etc. mean nothing. Only the company published scheduled route time is what you get paid on (1 of the 3 parameters in the duty rig)

5) We have a 35 day bid. Try planning your vacation 6 months ahead from today. What bid is that in? Then try and figure out how your pay gets computed since we get paid every two weeks and we have a min guarantee. The per diem/clean-up check is on a five week schedule. Believe me, even the payroll folks are confused.

.

The bottom line is this: If you like the northwest, Horizon is your airline. You can make a career here, just don't aspire to jet captain. We have 12-14 year captains that can't hold jet. A Q-400 is the best you can hope for. A Q-400 captain can make 70-80K or so. Me? I'm hangin' on for the ride and enjoying the view of Mt. Rainier while I wait for my upgrade.

 

[Mookie]

Don't forget the free microbrews flowing in the back!!! One week Full Sail, one week Widmeer, another Red Hook. Far and away the best.

If you don't mind me asking, how happy are ya'll at Horizon with Teamsters? I used to jumpseat with you guys alot, and it didn't seem that alot of people were too pleased with their representation. Also, how long did it take to get your current contract signed? Lastly, do you guys think that you gave up too much quality of life stuff to get the pay?

Confucious say...
If grasshopper can't see Mt. Ranier, tis raining...
If can see Ranier, it's about to start raining.

Thanks,
-Mookie

Hey Andy...How junior is SBA going to go on the CRJ????

 

[Southbound]

the teamster skinny

To answer your question... in my opinion, I don't think the Teamsters can provide our pilots anything we couldn't get with an in-house union. Keep in mind that's just my take. We have lots of guys who put their heart and soul into union work which is beneficial for the pilot group. Would the results of that effort be any different if I paid dues to an "Assoc of QX Pilots", instead of some UPS truckdrivers union? I don't think so. As with any union or group it's effectiveness is correlated directly to the contributions of individuals working toward a common goal. Call the group ALPA, Teamsters of an in house union. I personally don't think the Teamsters have much of a pilot's perspective.

Nothing against those truckers because we all know they have a much better contract then any of us can hope to. My point is, when I get the "Teamsters Monthly" or whatever the magazine is called, it's all about the janitors local 27 trying to fight oppression from the City of Detroit, or the photo of the angry truckers saying how they will "show" UPS or else. It is not an airline union.

To answer your other questions, the contract took over 4 years to get and it is effective until sept 2006. I don't think we really sacrificed too much to get our pay rates. The contract itself was "industry leading or better" at the time of signing though it is not without a few flaws. All in all, a fair contract. The catch is that Horizon has time and time again chosen to "interpret" the language of the contract to suit some very short sighted plans instead of reading the contract and abiding by it the way intended at signing. They (the company) has paid and are continuing to pay for these mistakes in the form of a pilot group that is no longer the going the extra mile for them (the company). It is now US vs THEM and that is no way to do business in the airline world, especially now. SO

To end a very long vent, I find it interesting that a company with one of the best products in the airline biz, flies the best equiptment, and gets paid on par with most peers is NEVER mentioned in any of these boards on anyones "top 10 places to work" list. The reasons are a 1.) glacial paced movement due to no real growth for the past decade and 2.) some managers that still don't know how to treat people. Get rid or these two things and Horizon will again make the top list. There is hope.
BTW, my list would have to go Air Wisc and Skywest in no particular order because I am an out west kind of guy and I have never met anyone from those two companies who had bad things to say.
Cheers

 

[Andy Neill]

Mookie,

I can't tell yet. I'm betting the folks that are in the Brasilia there will be putting in their bids for the jet real soon and, because of that, seniority requirement for the LEFT seat of the jet at SBA will spike big time.

We'll just have to see who bids it and who doesn't.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

My only worry in this industry today, is a company that's at the mercy of MGT. A non union carrier like Skywest and I will admit that they treat their people great but if it's so great why is it that mgt there fights during voting to keep you guys from voting in a union. What type of protection do you have if mgt wants to get
rid of you? What do you do when you feel that you have been passed over or scheduling says that by their calculations you are good to work another hour putting you at 8:01hrs of flying for the day. What is going to happen on the day that Skywest enters into an agreement that is great financially for the company but causes the pilots to be used as a whipsaw. At some point you guys are going to see the true head of the beast, I hope not but you just might.

WD.