Where is the ASA MEC?

[Dannone]

The e-mail said one of the highlights, no concessions. Why state that? Also said 4300 strong or something to that effect, while not addressing the 2,800 Skywest guys at all. That e-mail should not have been sent. It did not accomplish anything. It was as if they already had spoken to management and agreed that we should not merge all the lists. So while everyone wants this to be a good merger, It does not seem from the start, that the MEC's are on the same page. Had they even said we are looking at the language etc. Or, dont bring it up at all, the concessions or the 4300 strong. Once again, not here to say these guys are terrible and they are golfing and all they care about are dues. That stuff doesn't accomplish anything. I am saying that I don't see how the biggest issue where the pilot groups are concerned isn't addressed immediately!!

 

[JoeMerchant]

The e-mail said one of the highlights, no concessions. Why state that? Also said 4300 strong or something to that effect, while not addressing the 2,800 Skywest guys at all. That e-mail should not have been sent. It did not accomplish anything. It was as if they already had spoken to management and agreed that we should not merge all the lists. So while everyone wants this to be a good merger, It does not seem from the start, that the MEC's are on the same page. Had they even said we are looking at the language etc. Or, dont bring it up at all, the concessions or the 4300 strong. Once again, not here to say these guys are terrible and they are golfing and all they care about are dues. That stuff doesn't accomplish anything. I am saying that I don't see how the biggest issue where the pilot groups are concerned isn't addressed immediately!!

1. The email had to say something to keep everyone from saying they didn't say anything....Everything of substance at the time has already been said.

2. The "no concessions" was only telling you what management already said.

3. I want Skywest on the same list also, but you don't understand ALPA politics. We should have pushed for it during contract negotiations, but ALPA was afraid because it would result in a new representational vote. That may result in ALPA getting voted off the property. I'm fine with that, but ALPA doesn't want that.

This MEC does have our best interests in mind...Give them some time....

 

[Dannone]

I am not saying the MEC does not have our best interests in mind!! I am saying that e-mail was a bad way to start this thing. They don't have to say it just because management said it.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I am not saying the MEC does not have our best interests in mind!! I am saying that e-mail was a bad way to start this thing. They don't have to say it just because management said it.

What exactly did you want to hear? I really didn't care to hear anything that I didn't already know...That memo came from ALPA national for the most part anyway...Blame their communication department if you are looking for a boogy man...

 

[JumpersAway]

Dude-

Get back to me when you have more time in an airplane than my newest jacket. My perspective may not be positive or fun, but I have been around long enough to see through the fog of B.S. we are being sold. I see the same tricks, I know where this stuff can lead. You simply do not. This ain't my first rodeo.

With the substance of your arguments and lopped views, I'd say all that extra flight time you sport was at high altitude without O-2. Remember this- practice makes permenance, not perfection. I hope you fly better than you reason, or we're all in danger of unemployment.

 

[crj567]

With the substance of your arguments and lopped views, I'd say all that extra flight time you sport was at high altitude without O-2. Remember this- practice makes permenance, not perfection. I hope you fly better than you reason, or we're all in danger of unemployment.

Could you please check with your mommy and assure the rest of us that you are not learning-disabled...... This post really gives me pause.

-I am not supposed to smack the special kids around-I understand it is not nice.

Could this psychodrivel possibly be what you are getting at? Still makes no sense, but at least I understand the silly logic you are attempting to use....

http://ezinearticles.com/?Practice-Makes-Permanent-Not-Perfect&id=2649261

 

[PCL_128]

It's pretty sad when JoeMerchant is the voice of reason on a thread about union issues. Some of you guys really need to relax and trust your MEC. They know what they're doing.

 

[buscap]

For quite a few people, Joe is like having Bernie Maddoff on your side. It's not my opinion, but I see where their grief is. If he really wants this thing to work, perhaps he should clam up.

I'm amazed his few pro-PBS posts didn't torpedo the thing.:laugh:

 

[Dannone]

There have been plenty of reasonable voices and some unreasonable voices. The ones that drive me nuts are the ones that are almost sorry for making a good living for being a pilot. This is an opportunity for pilots to start taking back some of the things we have been getting taken away from us the past 10 years. Our union leadership needs to be firm and reasonable and certainly on the same page with the other 2 groups. If the union knows something we don't, fine. Perception is reality though, and they should not put things out that people would perceive the wrong way!! The start to one group has to begin with one message!!

 

[Medeco]

There have been plenty of reasonable voices and some unreasonable voices. The ones that drive me nuts are the ones that are almost sorry for making a good living for being a pilot. This is an opportunity for pilots to start taking back some of the things we have been getting taken away from us the past 10 years. Our union leadership needs to be firm and reasonable and certainly on the same page with the other 2 groups. If the union knows something we don't, fine. Perception is reality though, and they should not put things out that people would perceive the wrong way!! The start to one group has to begin with one message!!

Please try to remind yorself that you are 1 pilot at Atlantic southeast, you are speaking as if your opinion is shared by all regarding the MEC email.

No matter what the MEC does, some group of people are going to dislike anything they do or say.

Regarding "taking back", well you can join the club of "head in the sand", or you can reason that 10 yrs ago and more, the airline market was very different and it is still changing. Airlines are trying to find anyway possible to make a profit. Much of Skywest Inc.'s profit and money in the bank came from a business model that has changed significantly, and the profits that Inc. has posted shows that change. Thank goodness they have managed their money in a conservitive way.

Now, I'm not about to agree to ANY concessions, nor do I believe the status quo at Atlantic Southeast is acceptable. But, reasonable minds should prevail in the next CBA.

 

[Abernathy]

It's pretty sad when JoeMerchant is the voice of reason on a thread about union issues. Some of you guys really need to relax and trust your MEC. They know what they're doing.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about. Sorry. Airline Unions aren't what they used to be.

 

[johnpeace]

I sent an email to the 3 MEC chairmen or board members or whatever they're called...

One of them called me within half an hour and talked with me for about 25 minutes answering questions, sharing my concerns, allaying some of my concerns and frankly sharing his own insights/observations.

Another one emailed me back within an hour.

I think the other one is way busy and I hope he's working on other stuff.

This whole thing is making me want to get involved with my union. That seems more productive than throwing stones on an internet message forum.

 

[Dannone]

I don't feel like anything I have said is unreasonable. 10 years ago the market was different, you are right about that. Management needs to realize that they need to find a way to be profitable using means other than pilot salaries! Who pays more to fly 737s than Southwest? Who has lower costs than Southwest? HMM? My head is in the sand? I think when people stop having the attitude that the way to lower costs is to lower pilot salaries and QOL we will all be better off!! BTW, my QOL was way better 2 years ago than it is now. I don't think it is unreasonable to see my family more than 2 days a week!!

 

[Abernathy]

BTW, my QOL was way better 2 years ago than it is now. I don't think it is unreasonable to see my family more than 2 days a week!!

Dannone,

A lot of the diehard "company" guys can't relate to people like you who are married, have kids, families, etc because they are in their 40s, single, never been married, and their idea of a grand old time is crackin' beers on a fishing boat listening to Jimmy Buffet with other middle-aged dudes until they die.

 

[Dannone]

Dannone,

A lot of the diehard "company" guys can't relate to people like you who are married, have kids, families, etc because they are in their 40s, single, never been married, and their idea of a grand old time is crackin' beers on a fishing boat listening to Jimmy Buffet with other middle-aged dudes until they die.[/QUOT
That's funny!! I bet they would rather have more time for Buffet and Beer, and I bet they had it 2 years ago!!

 

[Nevets]

Maybe this could be good for us... After the dust settles we might end up with some new blood in the union who actually tries to advocate for the pilots and enforce working agreements.

I'm sure the MEC will be composed of the all the current members, minus at least two MEC officers and one of our Executive Vice Presidents (although we may be upgraded to group A anyways). There are no base overlaps.

Any hint of this becoming an US vs THEM thing means we are instantly outnumbered 2 to 1.

I don't think it will come to that. In any case, if the MCs cannot agree, it goes to arbitration.

Let's see the MEC just listed a highlight of the deal. No pilot concessions. Are you kidding me???? I would expect that from management, but our union telling us that is a highlight??? Also, no mention of merging all the lists.

As an XJT pilot, I was a bit disappointed by not mentioning the elephant in the room. To be honest, our own MEC communication kind of skirted around it as well. As for concessions, the only thing I can think of there is that Skywest management did ask for 16% concessions from us two years ago so maybe that is why they put it as a highlight.

Hey dudes and dudettes- our airline just paid out 133 million bucks, and the best news is:

You Won't Get a Pay Cut!

Just to point out some more facts, XJT has $96M in cash and restricted cash, has assets that amount to about $350M, and about $35M in debt.

Following legislative ammendments to merger policy and aquisition laws, it is the stance of both government (NMB) and unions (ALPA) that no one group benefit at the cost of another. This doesn't mean DOH or a straight up ratio, but what it does mean is that a large laundry list of factors and circumstances will be used to determine where you will ultimately end up on the list. One of the notes is that you cannot be displaced from Captain to co-pilot as a result of the integration. Career expectations (fleet type) is also a consideration.

Just to clarify, current merger policy only takes into account in no specific order or weight:
status and category
longevity
career expectations

How open is the XJ group going to be to good faith negotiations if the company that just bought them is trying to circumvent their scope from the beginning?

Exactly! BR mentioned on the earnings call that they want to treat us with dignity and respect. Its a bunch of crap. He may said that but their actions say the opposite. They want to treat us with dignity and respect, start by making your first act as our new boss, honor the clear intent of our hard fought and legally binding contract!

It was as if they already had spoken to management and agreed that we should not merge all the lists. So while everyone wants this to be a good merger, It does not seem from the start, that the MEC's are on the same page.

I hope this isn't the case. It didn't seem as though the two MECs are on the same page when it comes to one list. Hopefully it just means that the ASA MEC is still on the previous page and hasn't caught up.