where is njaowner?

[netjetwife]

Netjetwife, I have tried to help you understand some of the dynamics involved with these issues. You don't see anything of value in what I have told you?

You do not speak for all NJA wives. Even among the following you do have surely you understand that you can't talk on and on and expect everything you say to represent the feelings and ideas of your entire group.

You have said you are speaking on the behalf of the NJA wives. No you are not.

You are, frankly, talking a lot of crap.

You have said your purpose here is to educate yourself and to rally the troops. Yet you refuse to listen to anyone. Maybe you are accomplishing some rallying but it sure doesn't seem you are learning anything.

I NEVER claimed to speak for ALL wives of all the NJ pilots. JUST those members of the Online Support Group, whose backing I do have, and those in MY gateway that I communicate w/regularly.

Am I correct in my understanding of your comments---you believe that if someone disagrees with you that they have learned nothing? What about those pilots that also happen to to on the same side of the issue as I am? Or are you claiming to speak for them?

What "crap"?? Expressing a belief that pilots are professionals that should be paid as such? Pointing out that some of the owners DO TIP ? Stating that those tips ARE appreciated? (Why didn't you attack those pilots that posted on here that they had received and appreciated tips? ) Reporting that some wives are so fed up that they have ASKED the support group about informational picketing? You can shoot the messenger, but it doesn't change the situation.

 

[netjetwife]

Publishers, thank you for the feedback. All I was ever looking for was an academic discussion of the subject. I never envisioned anything dramatic at all. Maybe just a few wives holding signs so that they could feel as if they were taking a stand for themselves and their children. Our FBO is a quiet place, I doubt anyone would even have noticed. I'm just trying to convey the level of frustration among the wives that have waited 3 years for a contract, which we were all told would be "industry-leading" and "kick-ass", while in reality this TA is insulting and regressive. None of us would knowingly hurt our cause. We will only act under supervision of our leaders that will be voted into office next month.

Hawkered and English, apparently you are having problems discussing issues on an intelligent, academic level. Thus, you resort to unfounded, personal attacks. My children are proud of the stand I've taken on behalf of our family.

Located in the mt zone as I am, it is possible for me to chat with those wives on the west coast before they go to bed, and then to leave posts for those on the east coast to read when they get up. It's a system that works well for our group, and there is at least one other wife located in the middle of the country that is doing the same. Our common feeling of disgust with the TA is what drew us together, but the empathy and support we have found is what will keep the group going even after we achieve our goal of a good contract.

 

[Sctt@NJA]

Ok you just don't get it and probably never will. You have come on to a pilots message board and have established yourself as an authority on proper pilot tipping procedure. Thanks for the research, but forget about stupid tips. Screw TIPS!

You have talked about job actions in a way that demonstrates you have no understanding of the issue.

You have jumped into the fight over pilot compensation that we have all been engaged in our entire careers. This is great but you you are the newbie. You need to listen up when people who know more about these things than you do speak.

You disagree me with me? That's fine. That doesn't mean you haven't learned anything. But you sure are quick to shrug off all opposing viewpoints.

Not even really sure in what ways we disagree. I agree with all that you say about us needing to fight to make NJA a better place. I really just don't like the tipping talk, the "oh poor us, we are so taken advantage of" talk, and the "should I take my kids out and picket?" talk... directed to a possible owner!!!!!!

Please get a clue!

When you talk about tipping over and over and the proper way for owners to tip, and the proper way for pilots to accept tips and THEN claim that you would never ask for a tip on your husbands behalf.... excuse me but HUH???!!!! You just did! Right here on this thread!

The worst part is you seem to have been drawn to this thread because an apparent owner posts here. You have basically engaged an owner as a way of getting some kind of inside scoop. It is disgusting.

I don't expect any of this to sink in. I have about reached my limit and will stop posting now. (I think!... and unless I really can't help it!)

 

[netjetwife]

I reported my findings from an internet search and the feedback from the wives in my group--nothing more. I came to this board to "listen" to our NJ pilots discuss the TA w/other frac pilots. I entered a discussion of FO/FO pay--something I have personal experience with. The owner came later and was treated with much suspicion. I asked him 3 questions. HE CHOSE to reply to the tipping one. You may be against it, yourself, BUT it does take place. This thread will NOT change what some owners are doing---showing their appreciation. The owners that tip do so because they WANT to. At least I treated the owner with respect, others didn't. He could have ignored me but chose not to. It would have been rude of me NOT to answer his question, in turn.

Perhaps we disagree because of the different circumstances we are in. What is your pay? How hard are you working? How many 14hr days do you pull? My husband just did 2 in his last tour. Most days are 10-12hrs. The Excel pilots fly 4-6 legs/flights a day. What about your fleet? My husband tells me that those senior pilots w/easier work loads (1-2 flights) and more money are out of touch with the rest of the pilotforce--a majority that has been here less than 5 yrs, I believe. One final question-- perhaps the most telling of all, how are you voting on the TA and who do you support for MEC?

 

[Sctt@NJA]

Ok I am back already!

My pay? 4th year captain pay. Will be 5th year in November. Not having retirement money means I take home less than your husband.

When I started I made the same amount your husband does. Minus the military retirement money.

14 hour days? Your asking a NetJet pilot if he works 14 hour days like your husband does? ummm... YEAH. I started in the Ultra which your husband could tell you about. That and the 400xp are considered the "hardship" fleets mainly due to the lack of an APU. You can ask your husband what one of those is and why they are nice to have.

I fly the 800XP. You can ask your husband what one of those are.

Are you trying to pit me against your husband? We are on the same side. I just have a problem with YOUR (not your husbands) methods.

How am I voting on the TA? None of your business! (hint... if you really want to know do a search of my posts... I have made it very clear) How are you voting? Oh yeah you AREN'T!

Who do I support for MEC? ABSOLUTELY NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

Who are you going to vote for for MEC? Oh yeah... YOU DON'T GET TO VOTE for that either.

 

[netjetwife]

Sctt, I'm sorry if I've offended you, but I still maintain that pilots' wives have a vital stake in the outcome and, that being the case, have every right to participate in a discussion of the issues. I feel that if more people had been more outspoken LAST time, we wouldn't all be in this position THIS time. A married pilot votes based on what is in the best interest of himself AND his wife. All of the wives I speak to are discussing the TA with their husbands, and they (both pilots and wives) consider his vote to be a joint decision.

No, I wasn't trying to pit my husband against you. Just trying to understand where our difference of opinion originates. Perhaps I do need to read your previous posts. I realize your votes are confidential; it was a rhetorical question.


APU...hhmmm...could that stand for Auxillary Power Unit? Is it the generator thing that allows the plane to have A/C when its on the ground? Yes, that is considered a hardship case.

As many of the pilots/wives say, "It's a solid NO vote from OUR house", and we are NOT voting for the current MEC, who have failed miserably! I hope that puts us on the same side of history. My husband often says that the Yes voters will be on the "wrong side of history". (That of course being ONLY the history of NJA.)

 

[Lord Wakefield]

are we forgetting the company has warned that tips must be turned in, I think?

 

[Hawkered]

Netjet Wife, your attacks have been quite personal as well. You seem to hold some belief that you have a higher level of intelligence than the rest of us?

You know what..one of my students has flown over Iraq and dropped bombs and told me he encountered very little resistance throughout any of his sorties.

Yeah, well anyway. Go back and join the other twenty-five or so that won't shut their yappers and think that the yes voters will just go away.

Our management has seen the light. We need to give this ship a rudder if we are to retain investor confidence, develop our workplace and grow as a company. The contract is a living breathing organism that can be updated with Letters of Agreement at any time. We can start updating the agreement and pursuing the needed changes with a new contract in 30 months from now.

You seem to want us all to put our lives on hold while we listen to you belly-ache about how great it was in the military. They should have taught you in the service something about the time value of money. If you reject this proposal now, it will cost you a lot more in the long run, on the returns and compounding of your investments.

Oh, I forgot. You married an F-16 jock, you guys know everything!

 

[Lrjet55]

Our management has seen the light. We need to give this ship a rudder if we are to retain investor confidence, develop our workplace and grow as a company. The contract is a living breathing organism that can be updated with Letters of Agreement at any time. We can start updating the agreement and pursuing the needed changes with a new contract in 30 months from now.

I hope someone beats the ever living piss out of you! I for one would get in line for this.

Its because of these stupid attitudes why were are where we are. Every contract from here on out will have some dumba$$ saying "30 months from now."

PM me so I can put you on my no fly list and save us both some bloddy knuckles.

 

[Hawkered]

Oh my, such words of wisdom from two buffoons sent by the Teamsters thugs?

Hey boys...had any luck finding Jimmy Hoffa yet?

Yeah... sure go ahead, go and make threats. I'll subpoena this website under the new Patriot Act laws and make sure you guys never make it through a TSA security point ever again, or rent a Cessna!

Be careful what you say, or who you say it too, you may live to regret it.