Where Can I build turbine time Cheap

[JJJ]

Did you know that a pilot who spends 10 years at a major will only make $53,640 more then a pilot who spends 10 years at ASA?

This can be very miseading, while at the same time true. To the best of my knowledge Comair is a major, although not usually thought of a major in the sense of having big airplanes. Revenue is what counts. If you compare ASA to Comair, it would only be a 5,360 a year difference.

Does anyone know what an ASA capt would make at 10 years with 1000 flt hrs/yr + check airman over ride for the same amount + extra for duty, trip rigs. etc? That might explain how they got to the 160,000 figure.

Even if it is true, it's still misleading and used on purpose to mislead potential students. Anyone that teaches there, works there, or is associated with that place should be ashamed.

 

[MetroSheriff]

Hello fellow Aviators

I need to build about 250 to 300 hours of flight time Cheap and quickly...Can Anyone help....

Try your friendly U.S. Navy or Air Force recruiter. It won't cost you a dime.

 

[9rj9]

If you have 63K

go to law school. Buy your own plane.

 

[TriDriver]

Right you are, avbug, when you write: "experience can't be bought...build experience and ability". That's what we're trying to do at TAB Express. It's a program very much like what I did when I instructed for the Navy in the T-34C for 3 years. After their primary training, students didn't get a CFI and fly a C-172 for a year. If they were going to the P-3 or C-130 they continued their training in the T-44 (Navy version of the C-90 King Air). They built experience flying a turbine powered, pressurized airplane in a multi-crew environment. They flew the airways, working with ATC to dodge thunderstorms and deal with icing and all the other things they might experience in the plane they're going to fly out in the fleet. That's exactly what we're doing at TAB.

JJJ thinks I should be ashamed to work at TAB Express. Sorry triple J, but I'm proud to be working there with about 4 furloughed Delta pilots and several other airline types. I'm a working airline pilot, so I've told the Chief Pilot that I only want to work when he really needs me, and I fly about 2 or 3 days a month. I don't want to take any work away from the guys that really need it. BTW, we have a group of really great CFI's that do the Pvt/Comm/ME/Inst training, before the students get to us airline guys and the King Air.

I agree with everybody that doesn't like the marketing hype on the website. I don't either, and I'm going to talk to the boss about it. However, every student there has made it past the marketing spin when making a decision to go there. Nobody's there with any misguided expectations they get from the website. Management is continually going to AEPS and ARINC type seminars and making a pitch to airlines. They like to think they're going to get some kind of a hook-up with some regionals, but every student there knows there is nothing firm at this time. Every student there is putting out a lot of money, and they've made a pretty good analysis of where they want to train. If they don't like TAB, they go somewhere else. Sorry, but there is good enrollment and increasing all the time.

Yes it is expensive, but like I said above, if you don't like the program, go somewhere else. If you come to TAB, I look forward to helping you build some experience in a turbine powered, pressurized airplane flying like the airlines do.

TriDriver Bob

 

[Obi-Wan]

Try Alpine air !!!

 

[Chunk]

Alpine Air = PFT last time I checked

 

[bobbysamd]

Once again, I appreciate TriDriver's remarks and his informed viewpoint about TAB.

Now, TriDriver, while you're discussing rectification of TAB's misleading, Kit Darby-inspired "pilot shortage" advertising with the boss, how 'bout suggesting that he obtain Part 141 certification for the school? You certainly have enough qualified and experienced talent there to give self-examining stage checks and really give your students value for the cost.

Just a respectful suggestion.

 

[TriDriver]

bobbysamd

I'll check on the 61/141 thing with the boss at TAB. I think what you're saying about a 141 operation is that a bunch of money would be saved on examiner fees. The students would also save money by not needing as many hours for each rating.

I think I know what the boss will say. It's a bunch of extra paper work to get a 141 certification and the admisnistrative costs are higher. The students want to build time, not get their ratings in a couple hours less (which probably doesn't happen too much anyway). The Feds will be poking around a lot more than they already are. In the case of the King Air flying, there is no training that is resulting in a rating. The students are ME rated and they are flying PIC in the King Air and are just building experience flying the airways. Some of the other programs TAB has for military heilicopter pilots or guys with 1000 total/100 ME don't necessarily result in any new FAA ratings either - so no 141 program would apply. I think a lot students show up with at least a Pvt, so I don't think a 141 program would be real beneficial.

In my 2500 hours of civilian CFI time, I've worked for a helicopter training outfit and a bunch of FBO's and military flying clubs, but none of them have been 141. I did do my flixed-wing commercial at a 141 school before I went to Army helicopter flight training, and it saved me about 20 hours of flight time, but I think the hourly rates were higher at the 141 place to cover extra administrative expenses. A couple of FBO's I've seen that have a 141 certification do a lot of the training under part 61. It's not as restrictive. I don't know of too many pilots that attend a 141 school and get their Pvt in 35 hours. Usually a place gets a 141 certification so they can train pilots who want to use the GI Bill, which requires a 141 operation.

I'm going to fly an airways flight with 2 students at TAB on Monday, so I'll try and check and report back.

Bob the TriDriver

 

[bobbysamd]

141

Thanks for answering, TriDriver.

I instructed in three 141 schools, Riddle, FlightSafety in Vero, and Mesa, which is probably most analagous to TAB. I felt that students benefited from the discipline and structure imparted by Part 141. After all, 141 is school, and all that school implies, i.e. studying, preparing, going to class, studying for tests, and being well-prepared for flights, considering that each flight is a training sortie with a set profile. I realize you can do all these things under Part 61.

Once more, I appreciate your posts about TAB. They have added perspective to the discussions we've had about the place. Have a safe flight.

 

[altimaklr]

You gotta give it to tridriver, he's got balls to stay in a discussion like this and provide information in an obviously hostile croud. Still, I think TAB is a terrible waste of money- but hey, people can spend their money however they want.

-Sean

 

[Freight Dog]

I find it pretty hokey that I saw TAB Express ad in Airline Pilot Magazine last year.

Embarrassing....

 

[bobbysamd]

TAB ads

I agree, I appreciate Tridriver's comments because it gives the other side.

TAB's pilot shortage ads are bad enough. What gets me is in either the May or June Flying there was an article about TAB as well as a half-page ad.

So much for news and journalism being sacrosanct and immune from economics.

 

[TriDriver]

TAB website, etc.

"You gotta give it to tridriver, he's got balls to stay in a discussion like this....."

Yeah, I'm an old Airborne, Ranger, Special Forces guy, so I don't have anything to prove to anybody

But, I'm only trying to put out straight info here.

I did talk with the folks at TAB today, and the website is getting totally redone. However, as they say on the website, TAB does have an agreement with Eagle to take their grads!!! Of course, Eagle isn't hiring right now.

I just talked with a grad of the TAB program. He graduate last August and he and another of TAB's grads had jobs at Eagle. Then 9-11 came along and they stopped hiring. He went out and got a CFI and is now doing the primary instruction at TAB.

An Eagle management type named Mark Brown came and spent a lot of time at TAB looking over the program and watching students in the sim. He said he'd hire a bunch of TAB grads. But after 9-11 they stopped hiring, and apparently Brown is not the hiring guru at Eagle anymore.

As I said in another thread on TAB, we've had about 3 or 4 low time grads go to work for Colgan in about May, and I think I said we had a former Army helicopter guy get hired at Colgan. I think he was, but I heard today that he also got hired by ACA and went to work there in about July or August.

So, expensive - yeah. Marketing spin on the website - yeah. But about 50 or so students are there right now. I've talked with a lot of them, and they all know there are no guarantees. If somebody wants to come there, all the instructors are going to do their best to help them get the best instruction we can give them. And I'm not ashamed or embarrassed about that at all.

TriDriver Bob

 

[TriDriver]

141/61

bobbysamd

I looked at the some of the programs TAB provides for pilots with different levels of experience/training. They really couldn't have a 141 certification for all the different stuff.

Plus, under 61, if they want to change something in a program, they just change it. If it were an approved 141 course, they'd have to apply to the Feds and wait maybe months to get approval to make the change. They recently decided they wanted to change the sequence for some of the ground schools. I think it's to get more commercial and instrument groundschool stuff in earlier in the training. That would probably be harder to do in a 141 course.

During the Comm/Inst/ME training, a lot of the stuff is integrated, and doesn't lend itself to separate 141 courses.

The students are prepared for the PTS, and take separate checkrides with a local Designated Examiner. However, it is very nice to have the flexibility to adjust and fine tune your training program as necessary.

TriDriver Bob

 

[bobbysamd]

141 v. 61

Thanks for checking into to it, Bob. Once again, it's great to have your informed comments about TAB as a counterpoint to other comments about the place, including mine.

I can understand your boss' point of view about Part 61 v. Part 141. Maybe 141 is something he might consider down the road. Aside from the consistency Part 141 affords, it would be nice for students not to have to pay $200-$400 for each checkride, on top of the $63K they're paying for the course.

$63K is expensive. But, it's nice to at least be able to have that choice to examine.