Where are you ALPA??

[BluDevAv8r]

When are we going to grow some and put an end to this BS...Where the hell are my union dues going? I think if you get furloughed you should be given back you union dues!!!

If you are furloughed, ALPA will provide job assistance as well as medical insurance reimbursement most likely (your XJT MEC and CAL MEC provided that for its furloughees after 9/11). Other than that, you won't get any of your dues back, sorry. They went to pay for programs and services that you had access to while you were actively flying the line.

-Neal

 

[777_Jackpot]

It may be a comment that is a pipe dream....but it has merit.

Face it. ALPA has been neutered. They are an ineffective bargaining agent for airline pilots as a whole. They may be good for segments of the airline business at certain times, but they are ineffective to the whole.

Further, they make sure that all their shops are agency shops....so you cannot withhold your dues when you feel like they are screwing you or not acting in your best interests.

I wish I had that kind of setup......No matter what I do, I still get paid.

Until the members of ALPA unite, clean house in Washington, and start over as a unified group....the profession will continue to degenerate.

A350

Very well said

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Quote:
Originally Posted by A350
It may be a comment that is a pipe dream....but it has merit.

Face it. ALPA has been neutered. They are an ineffective bargaining agent for airline pilots as a whole. They may be good for segments of the airline business at certain times, but they are ineffective to the whole.

Further, they make sure that all their shops are agency shops....so you cannot withhold your dues when you feel like they are screwing you or not acting in your best interests.

I wish I had that kind of setup......No matter what I do, I still get paid.

Until the members of ALPA unite, clean house in Washington, and start over as a unified group....the profession will continue to degenerate.

A350

Very well said

Not very well said. Very well flawed and easily agreed upon by others...

Let's go by paragraph. Ineffective as a whole? With the current status of our industry how do you want ALPA to be more effective? Sure you rattle off anecdotal post, but what do you really want? Complainers with no solutions are whinners.

Agency shop. So your expectations (which I claim are misaligned) are not met and you are ready to stop paying dues. There are plenty of pilots out there that would be given $100 cash and compalin it was in 100 $1. So it doesn't matter if times are great or bad, someone is going to withhold dues. And if he's doing it, then why not the next guy, and the next and the next. Now the same guys will complain that ALPA is ineffective in Collective Bargaining, representation, Safety and Engineering (all the resources that most take for granted), etc.

Last "comment" How do you suggest we unify? By posting negative posts on FI? Could it start with an individuals attitude? Are your status reps phone numbers in your cell phone? Do you call them? Do you go to Council Meetings? (currently attendance is at 10-5%). Do you excercise democracy at ALPA and vote (currently and depending on what is being voted on, voter particpation ranges from 30% to 60%). Have you read Flying the Line? (its not ALPA propaganda as many think. There are chapters were ALPA doesn't look good). How can we unify when individual pilots don't do or know much?

Clean House in Washington? Its not [necessarily] the players in DC it is the game. I don't think you are going to change how the game is played so we'd better learn it. What matters in Washington is our legislative effectiveness. Are you aware of the pension reform act that was endorsed and pushed by ALPA? (check out the latest rag). Also our effectiveness is related to ALPA-PAC. How much do you give to ALPA-PAC? (since you are ready to dump your dues, I'm guessing 0) Money talks-trash talkin on FI walks.

The regional airline MECs have meet in Herndon to discuss how management is gaming the feed carriers. Sounds like "they" are doing something.


The fact of the matter is ALPA isn't necessarily broken. It's the membership. At least [fix] do what you can and control what you can before point fingers. Two big points. The membership doesn't know how ALPA works. And second, with this ignorance comes an expectation that is so far out there, pilots are determined reject the only organization that represents them.

Here is the deal. Get informed and involved. Here is a to do list.

Call you reps- Ask them what is going on? Instead of telling them its all jacked up. Ask why is it like this.
Read books- Getting your "knowledge" from FI and the crewroom is not smart.
Particapte- Go to Council meetings. Vote. Give to ALPA-PAC.

Once your effectiveness is up to speed we can work ALPA's weaknesses.


p.s

Nothing last forever... If ALPA's time has come, then so be it. However while it is here, I'll support it. When ALPA is replaced, I'll support the replacement.

 

[A350]

Rez:

I want ALPA to stand up for all pilots and say enough is enough. I don't care if it takes an SOS. You can't get effective unity because even in the post 9/11 world, there are haves and have nots.

Further, ALPA meetings. I have never seen a meeting cost so much and accomplish so little. Vast amounts of time and money are wasted overcoming polical factions and petty conflict while the real enemy is ignored because there is no time. Ever hear of net meeting? Conference calls? No they have to go to expensive hotels and expense the steak dinner after the buffet table is scraped clean. Pilots who waste their day off going are subjected to long waits to speak or a closed door meeting. ALPA is not management. Yet airline management has found a way to effectively remove the head of the union (MEC/LEC) from the membership with the closed meeting.

Lastly, the ALPA meetings I have been to. The path of least resistance was always agreed upon, no matter how much crap they (MEC/LEC) received from the membership. They look at the meeting goers, the ones who are willing to put up with the waiting and commuting to the meeting on a day off, as a bunch of rabble rousers who are malcontents and just want their cushy, suit wearing, management elbow rubbing, I know more than you do, I don't fly unless I want to job.

End of rant.

A350

 

[goodto50meters]

Rez:

I want ALPA to stand up for all pilots and say enough is enough. I don't care if it takes an SOS. You can't get effective unity because even in the post 9/11 world, there are haves and have nots.

Further, ALPA meetings. I have never seen a meeting cost so much and accomplish so little. Vast amounts of time and money are wasted overcoming polical factions and petty conflict while the real enemy is ignored because there is no time. Ever hear of net meeting? Conference calls? No they have to go to expensive hotels and expense the steak dinner after the buffet table is scraped clean. Pilots who waste their day off going are subjected to long waits to speak or a closed door meeting. ALPA is not management. Yet airline management has found a way to effectively remove the head of the union (MEC/LEC) from the membership with the closed meeting.

Lastly, the ALPA meetings I have been to. The path of least resistance was always agreed upon, no matter how much crap they (MEC/LEC) received from the membership. They look at the meeting goers, the ones who are willing to put up with the waiting and commuting to the meeting on a day off, as a bunch of rabble rousers who are malcontents and just want their cushy, suit wearing, management elbow rubbing, I know more than you do, I don't fly unless I want to job.

End of rant.

A350

You obviously have not been to an ASA meeting at least since 1999.

What airline were/are you at?

The petty infighting is cured by good leadership, and good people who see that compromise, patience and persuasion is the art of the deal not the infighting and waste that you have described. This exists at many MEC's, doesnt at others...

Perhaps you should run for office? Seriously. Be part of the solution.

 

[A350]

You are correct, I haven't been to an ASA ALPA meeting.


A350

 

[PBRstreetgang]

You are correct, I haven't been to an ASA ALPA meeting.


A350

Brilliant,
The current cornhole offer that is being offered to you, from SKYW, with much love was crafted on the old non-union pilot group. Except yours has a few gems added for your comfort. You think you hated DAL, wait you will experience a new level of discomfort, SKYW HATES the union/collective bargaining concept, at a level that reaches from the core of their belief system. Your cornholing is just starting, and will drive so hard and deep its gonna tickel your tonsels. Wait awhile I will bet you wish you were owned by mother DAL sooner rather than later.
PBR

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez:

I want ALPA to stand up for all pilots and say enough is enough. I don't care if it takes an SOS. You can't get effective unity because even in the post 9/11 world, there are haves and have nots.

Further, ALPA meetings. I have never seen a meeting cost so much and accomplish so little. Vast amounts of time and money are wasted overcoming polical factions and petty conflict while the real enemy is ignored because there is no time. Ever hear of net meeting? Conference calls? No they have to go to expensive hotels and expense the steak dinner after the buffet table is scraped clean. Pilots who waste their day off going are subjected to long waits to speak or a closed door meeting. ALPA is not management. Yet airline management has found a way to effectively remove the head of the union (MEC/LEC) from the membership with the closed meeting.

Lastly, the ALPA meetings I have been to. The path of least resistance was always agreed upon, no matter how much crap they (MEC/LEC) received from the membership. They look at the meeting goers, the ones who are willing to put up with the waiting and commuting to the meeting on a day off, as a bunch of rabble rousers who are malcontents and just want their cushy, suit wearing, management elbow rubbing, I know more than you do, I don't fly unless I want to job.

End of rant.

A350

A350,

An SOS is never going to happen? How in the RLA and CFR is this permitted? Any SOS should be deemed illegal.

And let's be clear, it is not becuase ALPA will not stand up and say enough is enough. It is because the RLA. It is the Fed Gov't not ALPA!!

If pilots are determined to shut down the entire airline industry they need to rewrite the RLA or join Al Qeda.

We live in a pro management-pro business country. The laws are slanted toward management. It is just the way it is... Nonetheless we've got to push back or get walked over. ALPA-PAC or APA's PAC.

You have legitimate grips out ALPA meetings, but that is due to your leadership, not ALPA per se. I've been to bad meetings. What a chore they were to listen to some MEC Chair stroke his ego..... Hate that stuff....


And this is my point. In my post, I call for pilots to get informed and the response is a SOS. Calling for a SOS is a waste of time. We need pilots who understand how the system works. Calling for illegal or militant action is useless. It is distracting and counter poductive.

http://www.nmb.gov/index.html

 

[ex j-41]

Obsolete Sytem

The system is flawed and obsolete. We need less pay seperation between
the junior and senior pilots. It needs to be less worth while for companies
to do what trans states are doing and express jet.
Why do first year Captains make so much less then 15 year?
Same Job.
The first year captain probably works more hours days weekends etc...
He/she is doing the exactly same job. Why the huge difference in pay?


The system is not working. Alpa if they continue to seperate the
junior senior pilots we will never unite and this spiral will continue downwards.
It is like the rich getting richer and poor getting poorer. And quess who
ALPA cares about?

 

[BluDevAv8r]

The system is flawed and obsolete. We need less pay seperation between
the junior and senior pilots. It needs to be less worth while for companies
to do what trans states are doing and express jet.
Why do first year Captains make so much less then 15 year?
Same Job.
The first year captain probably works more hours days weekends etc...
He/she is doing the exactly same job. Why the huge difference in pay?


The system is not working. Alpa if they continue to seperate the
junior senior pilots we will never unite and this spiral will continue downwards.
It is like the rich getting richer and poor getting poorer. And quess who
ALPA cares about?

Most jobs have raises built in for years of service with a company...why should aviation be any different? Your comments such as "the rich get richer" in this instance only further serve to show your flawed views and analysis on this subject. Sorry to sound so harsh but it is reality from where I sit.

-Neal