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When will the MEM pilots 'get it'???
- Thread starter PurpleTail
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Huck
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2001
- Posts
- 1,076
I've been trying to swap away a couple of RFO trips with open time. I kept getting "Insufficient reserves." Evidently you can't swap a trip unless TWO reserve pilots are available for that trip's footprint.
And I also repeatedly tried to drop every R day in my carryover. They've quit even responding to those (it's been ~ 24 hours).
A word of warning: if you have carryover, don't expect to bid a VTO and get rid of it. They protect minimum days off, that's all. They told me to "just request to drop" them....
And I also repeatedly tried to drop every R day in my carryover. They've quit even responding to those (it's been ~ 24 hours).
A word of warning: if you have carryover, don't expect to bid a VTO and get rid of it. They protect minimum days off, that's all. They told me to "just request to drop" them....
PurpleHaze
New member
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2005
- Posts
- 4
Keep yourself on the Call List for Draft! Ask for the Trip/Pairing number and tell them you'll get back to them if interested...NOT!
Later, see who accepted the Draft. Next time you see them you can thank them for increasing your profit sharing check...
Heck, tell everyone how Joe Sack of Dollars is working so diligently to help increase out stock dividends... what a guy!
Later, see who accepted the Draft. Next time you see them you can thank them for increasing your profit sharing check...
Heck, tell everyone how Joe Sack of Dollars is working so diligently to help increase out stock dividends... what a guy!
Diesel
TEB Hilton resident
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 4,394
well echopapa is one of those guys that just doesn't get it. He keeps saying the union has not said it and he takes the announcements to bend and mold to make sure that HE alone keeps making money.
Enjoy the slow process of negotiations because the company loves lone rangers like yourself.
Enjoy the slow process of negotiations because the company loves lone rangers like yourself.
active_herk
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2002
- Posts
- 188
Actually alot of trips in open time from now until July 5th for the right seat of the Boeing. Of course, the rest of the month has been snapped up. I hope everyone takes the time to enjoy the July 4 holiday and not "have" to work by picking up these trips.
Seems like alot of stuff in open time for the -11, but I don't usually track that seat.
Seems like alot of stuff in open time for the -11, but I don't usually track that seat.
AdlerDriver
Can't even hold reserve!
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2005
- Posts
- 442
Echopapa (part 1)
Mr. Echopapa,
I’m going to assume you are operating the way you do out of ignorance and a lack of experience with a union attempting to get a new contract. Your profile suggests that Fedex may be your first civilian job and first experience in an ALPA represented flying job. Unfortunately, many ex-military pilots used to their former environment don’t quite “get” the big picture when they join a union like ALPA. I’ll try not to attack because of your uninformed status. Several comments in your posts are just flat wrong.
When I flew my last trip, not one aircraft I flew had “UPS” painted on the side and none of them were brown. What is working or not at UPS is irrelevant. Maybe they don’t plan their manning and schedules as tight as we do. If we have all the “slop” in our system that you claim, make the company use it. We’ll never know how easy it is to adjust with all that “slop” unless we try. That will take time and effort and will be noticed. Maybe things on “Le Airbus” are not as tight. So, does that mean you get a pass and can draft while the bros on the Boeing, MD and -10 hold the line?
This statement is total BS. First, as someone else said, it is illegal for ALPA to tell you not to draft or AVA, etc. You need to open you eyes/ears just a little and look past official statements. If you bothered to go to a hub meeting, you would not be able to walk away believing your #2 statement. I accept your challenge above: Maybe you need to sign up for the ALPA MEC emails. I guess you missed the following statements in an official ALPA email to Fedex pilots on 6/14/06:
“It is the proverbial elephant in the room and since it encompasses several different facets, let's just call it "extra effort" - the historical and almost genetically driven quality in a FedEx pilot to perform beyond the call of duty as a matter of reflex. Fiduciaries are compelled to write around the issue as a matter of responsibility. Crossing the National Mediation Board (NMB) can have unwanted consequences at the table and while our negotiating team can certainly always use any support, we, as a group, have to be cognizant that we walk a line as we try to provide that support.
One of the boundaries of protocol that your MEC acknowledges is that "individual decisions of conscience" must be just that, absent solicitation or coercion from them or you. We have written the obvious in the past: that the actions of every pilot here, taken individually and collectively, matter very much. They are certainly the subject of regular and routine scrutiny by management's advisors and lieutenants. Nothing has changed there. What also has not changed is that you have a right to use your own brain to decide what that means for you, all by yourself.”
“So, as best as I can represent (with a legal chop as part of the requisite), here is another reminder about both edges of the sword. First, individual decisions must be that. Posting others' schedules on bulletin boards or making intimidating phone calls can't be sanctioned or ignored. Don't do it. On the other hand, your historical preferences for managing your professional life as an individual do not affect your current rights under this contract. Those rights are the same every day you wake up and are not abrogated by what you did yesterday. In other words, you are free every day to act your conscience and common sense.
Moving forward, if every pilot here merely laced their shoes the same way on the same day, somebody paid to notice such things would. And then it would be reported up their food chain as an "event." So, be aware: the topic being discussed here transcends the obvious. It is about everything you do in the capacity of being a FedEx pilot, just with the additional dimension of being most obvious and persuasive if done in numbers.”
I would say I just met your challenge.
(continued)…………….
Mr. Echopapa,
I’m going to assume you are operating the way you do out of ignorance and a lack of experience with a union attempting to get a new contract. Your profile suggests that Fedex may be your first civilian job and first experience in an ALPA represented flying job. Unfortunately, many ex-military pilots used to their former environment don’t quite “get” the big picture when they join a union like ALPA. I’ll try not to attack because of your uninformed status. Several comments in your posts are just flat wrong.
Echopapa said:
Echopapa said:
When I flew my last trip, not one aircraft I flew had “UPS” painted on the side and none of them were brown. What is working or not at UPS is irrelevant. Maybe they don’t plan their manning and schedules as tight as we do. If we have all the “slop” in our system that you claim, make the company use it. We’ll never know how easy it is to adjust with all that “slop” unless we try. That will take time and effort and will be noticed. Maybe things on “Le Airbus” are not as tight. So, does that mean you get a pass and can draft while the bros on the Boeing, MD and -10 hold the line?
Echopapa said:
This statement is total BS. First, as someone else said, it is illegal for ALPA to tell you not to draft or AVA, etc. You need to open you eyes/ears just a little and look past official statements. If you bothered to go to a hub meeting, you would not be able to walk away believing your #2 statement. I accept your challenge above: Maybe you need to sign up for the ALPA MEC emails. I guess you missed the following statements in an official ALPA email to Fedex pilots on 6/14/06:
“It is the proverbial elephant in the room and since it encompasses several different facets, let's just call it "extra effort" - the historical and almost genetically driven quality in a FedEx pilot to perform beyond the call of duty as a matter of reflex. Fiduciaries are compelled to write around the issue as a matter of responsibility. Crossing the National Mediation Board (NMB) can have unwanted consequences at the table and while our negotiating team can certainly always use any support, we, as a group, have to be cognizant that we walk a line as we try to provide that support.
One of the boundaries of protocol that your MEC acknowledges is that "individual decisions of conscience" must be just that, absent solicitation or coercion from them or you. We have written the obvious in the past: that the actions of every pilot here, taken individually and collectively, matter very much. They are certainly the subject of regular and routine scrutiny by management's advisors and lieutenants. Nothing has changed there. What also has not changed is that you have a right to use your own brain to decide what that means for you, all by yourself.”
“So, as best as I can represent (with a legal chop as part of the requisite), here is another reminder about both edges of the sword. First, individual decisions must be that. Posting others' schedules on bulletin boards or making intimidating phone calls can't be sanctioned or ignored. Don't do it. On the other hand, your historical preferences for managing your professional life as an individual do not affect your current rights under this contract. Those rights are the same every day you wake up and are not abrogated by what you did yesterday. In other words, you are free every day to act your conscience and common sense.
Moving forward, if every pilot here merely laced their shoes the same way on the same day, somebody paid to notice such things would. And then it would be reported up their food chain as an "event." So, be aware: the topic being discussed here transcends the obvious. It is about everything you do in the capacity of being a FedEx pilot, just with the additional dimension of being most obvious and persuasive if done in numbers.”
I would say I just met your challenge.
(continued)…………….
Last edited:
AdlerDriver
Can't even hold reserve!
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2005
- Posts
- 442
Echopapa (pt 2)
YGBSM!! You don’t think the company has a plan to deal with a legal self-help job action? We’re going to “ambush” them with our secret plan to stop overtime once we’re released? Give me a break! You are kidding yourself. How about doing EVERYTHING we can now to avoid being release at all!!! Have you ever been on strike? I haven’t. But I’ve worked another ALPA carrier with ugly strikes in their past. 20 years after the fact, the repercussions are still evident. It is truly a last resort. We have the opportunity to show our resolve and bring the company to the table with a real proposal. They rely so heavily on the greed or ignorance of pilots like you, it is amazing. Even if they could get by with the “slop” in our schedule if no one flew draft or volunteered, they would at least understand they were dealing with a unified group that is willing to do what it takes. Right now, guys like you are giving them confidence in the possibility that they can make us blink.
Another “Give me a break!” moment. You don’t HAVE to draft or volunteer. You can fly your contract to the LETTER – do nothing extra and you are operating legally. Are you really that ignorant?
No one is saying to do any of the above. As ALPA’s email said, it is an “individual choice”. You shouldn’t be pressuring any crew members, period. Just worry about yourself (obviously more than enough responsibility for you at this point). Spouting off in a public forum (crew bus) about individual choices is stupid – so another easy fix – don’t do it.
You are paranoid. If you operate within the rules of the contract, it doesn’t matter who is watching you. If your “normal behavior” isn’t following the contract and the FARs, maybe you have other problems. There are lots of individual choices that you can make which can have a serious effect on our negotiations. All of them are the SAFEST option. How are you going to get yourself in trouble by doing the following things in the name of SAFETY:
· Taxi at the low end of the allowable speeds – it is safer.
· If something is broken, write it up. It is safer. Don’t make stuff up or intentionally break something. However, don’t carry write-ups back to MEM. Write it up when it breaks and deal with the delay, if any. Somebody calls you on that; your next call should be to ALPA and maybe the FAA.
· If your flight plan says, “.80” – fly it, it is safer.
· Are you accepting direct routings? It’s safer to stay on the flight plan.
· Are you waiving duty times during irregular ops? That’s obviously not safe.
· Are you flying on the barber pole to get back so you can make your jumpseat or some other personal agenda? Not safe. Plus, if you can’t even make that sacrifice, are you really going to be able to do more than that if it comes to it?
There’s obviously many, many more individual choices you can make that are SAFE and as a side benefit, can have a serious effect on negotiations. I know it goes against everything we are used to when we refuse to go the extra mile. Unfortunately, that’s all the company understands. Most airlines run smoothly because pilots are type-A, do what it takes folks. We see a train-wreck about to happen and we go outside our normal, contractually expected duties to make things happen and avoid the wreck. Right now, if it’s not in your job description and responsibilities, let the person who is responsible take care of it. If every Fedex pilot flew the contract, operated SAFELY, didn’t help other employees do their jobs and of course didn’t draft or volunteer, we’d have a contract very, very quickly. Draft and volunteering are just the tip of the iceberg. You could at least start there. Grow a pair and maybe you can move on past the kindergarten stage of “How to conduct yourself during protracted contract negotiations.”
Echopapa said:
YGBSM!! You don’t think the company has a plan to deal with a legal self-help job action? We’re going to “ambush” them with our secret plan to stop overtime once we’re released? Give me a break! You are kidding yourself. How about doing EVERYTHING we can now to avoid being release at all!!! Have you ever been on strike? I haven’t. But I’ve worked another ALPA carrier with ugly strikes in their past. 20 years after the fact, the repercussions are still evident. It is truly a last resort. We have the opportunity to show our resolve and bring the company to the table with a real proposal. They rely so heavily on the greed or ignorance of pilots like you, it is amazing. Even if they could get by with the “slop” in our schedule if no one flew draft or volunteered, they would at least understand they were dealing with a unified group that is willing to do what it takes. Right now, guys like you are giving them confidence in the possibility that they can make us blink.
Echopapa said:
Another “Give me a break!” moment. You don’t HAVE to draft or volunteer. You can fly your contract to the LETTER – do nothing extra and you are operating legally. Are you really that ignorant?
Echopapa said:
No one is saying to do any of the above. As ALPA’s email said, it is an “individual choice”. You shouldn’t be pressuring any crew members, period. Just worry about yourself (obviously more than enough responsibility for you at this point). Spouting off in a public forum (crew bus) about individual choices is stupid – so another easy fix – don’t do it.
Echopapa said:
You are paranoid. If you operate within the rules of the contract, it doesn’t matter who is watching you. If your “normal behavior” isn’t following the contract and the FARs, maybe you have other problems. There are lots of individual choices that you can make which can have a serious effect on our negotiations. All of them are the SAFEST option. How are you going to get yourself in trouble by doing the following things in the name of SAFETY:
· Taxi at the low end of the allowable speeds – it is safer.
· If something is broken, write it up. It is safer. Don’t make stuff up or intentionally break something. However, don’t carry write-ups back to MEM. Write it up when it breaks and deal with the delay, if any. Somebody calls you on that; your next call should be to ALPA and maybe the FAA.
· If your flight plan says, “.80” – fly it, it is safer.
· Are you accepting direct routings? It’s safer to stay on the flight plan.
· Are you waiving duty times during irregular ops? That’s obviously not safe.
· Are you flying on the barber pole to get back so you can make your jumpseat or some other personal agenda? Not safe. Plus, if you can’t even make that sacrifice, are you really going to be able to do more than that if it comes to it?
There’s obviously many, many more individual choices you can make that are SAFE and as a side benefit, can have a serious effect on negotiations. I know it goes against everything we are used to when we refuse to go the extra mile. Unfortunately, that’s all the company understands. Most airlines run smoothly because pilots are type-A, do what it takes folks. We see a train-wreck about to happen and we go outside our normal, contractually expected duties to make things happen and avoid the wreck. Right now, if it’s not in your job description and responsibilities, let the person who is responsible take care of it. If every Fedex pilot flew the contract, operated SAFELY, didn’t help other employees do their jobs and of course didn’t draft or volunteer, we’d have a contract very, very quickly. Draft and volunteering are just the tip of the iceberg. You could at least start there. Grow a pair and maybe you can move on past the kindergarten stage of “How to conduct yourself during protracted contract negotiations.”
Last edited:
At least now we know who is doing all that draft flying........
I won't do draft, extra flying, etc. (Disputing pairings are a totally separate issue- it has nothing to do with negociations!!!! Just don't do them... Ever.)
But I will fly direct if I can- it is safe (duh)- and I will fly the speed that they want me to- ECON. Which is usually .83 or .84.
I won't do draft, extra flying, etc. (Disputing pairings are a totally separate issue- it has nothing to do with negociations!!!! Just don't do them... Ever.)
But I will fly direct if I can- it is safe (duh)- and I will fly the speed that they want me to- ECON. Which is usually .83 or .84.
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