When to descend?

[DC8 Flyer]

+/- 1 mile is in my AIM now. Let's go eat.

The only place I've ever seen +/- 1 printed is in the PTS.

I meant to say Initial Approach Segment, but I left out a '0'

Protected airspace on the initial segment is 4 miles lateral and a 2 mi. buffer.

Controllers can have aircraft on arcs 10 miles apart within 35 miles of the station.

None of this answers the question "What is established?"

Established on a DME arc is +/- 1 NM (DME) of the defined distance and within the published radials.

Now, I have never seen it, but I believe protected airspace on an arc is 4 miles, just like and airway and ATC is looking for +/- 2 miles, the +/- 1 mile is PTS stuff and is how GPS modes of OBS's show lateral deviation from the arc, so within 1 mile would be "needle alive".

 

[TonyC]

Established on a DME arc is +/- 1 NM (DME) of the defined distance and within the published radials.

Reference, please?








.

 

[DC8 Flyer]

Okay, I just wanted to confirm, that the 1600' meant that once you are cleared for the approach (even at the very beginning of the 12 dme arc, which is probably never going to happen), you can drop immediately to 1600' all the way to the OM. And the NoPT just simply says that you will not be making a procedure turn. Which, really doesn't need to be there in the first place right? I mean, looking at the layout it clearly shows that no PT is even needed to get to the LOC.


Thanks for the replies

You are exactly right. Keep in mind that just because you are shooting an approach doesn't mean you have to stay on it if you get the airport in site. Say you get cleared for this approach at the very beginning of this 12 DME arc, and once you hit 1600 feet you breakout to +10 miles vis and see the field, simply call field in site and do the visual (IF ATC re clears you for the visual). Saves time and gas. I realize you are prolly training for your IFR ticket, but always keep that in the back of your mind, the earlier you can get down, the more likely you can get the field in site a little sooner.

 

[DC8 Flyer]

Reference, please?








.

I have never been able to find one, except for the PTS standards, but as you know thats not defining established simply a tolerance. Now, the Garmin and Bendix GPS units I have used always used the 1 mile scale on the CDI needle for arcs, so thats where I get the 1 mile, maybe its wrong, but seems a good place to start.

Keep in mind the last time I shot a DME arc was 2001.

 

[TonyC]

Keep in mind that just because you are shooting an approach doesn't mean you have to stay on it if you get the airport in site. Say you get cleared for this approach at the very beginning of this 12 DME arc, and once you hit 1600 feet you breakout to +10 miles vis and see the field, simply call field in site and do the visual (IF ATC re clears you for the visual). Saves time and gas.

Do that on the ILS RWY 3 at Casper from the Muddy Mountain 29 DME arc at say, the 180 radial or so, and good luck with the high terrain. I wouldn't recommend it.

Sometimes the potential savings in time and gas is not worth the potential threat to safety.


Just an opinion...




.

 

[DC8 Flyer]

Do that on the ILS RWY 3 at Casper from the Muddy Mountain 29 DME arc at say, the 180 radial or so, and good luck with the high terrain. I wouldn't recommend it.

Sometimes the potential savings in time and gas is not worth the potential threat to safety.


Just an opinion...




.

Of course, there are exceptions to everything, just like doing a circling approach at nite in Aspen, when it was authorized, just cause you can, doesn't always make it a good idea. Thats where judgement comes in.

 

[stagger]

Don,t make this so hard

As soon as you cross over the holding fix to go into a holding pattern regardless of holding pattern type I say to atc...BIG DOG XXX is established in holding.

 

[TonyC]

As soon as you cross over the holding fix to go into a holding pattern regardless of holding pattern type I say to atc...BIG DOG XXX is established in holding.

Well, it may not seem hard to you, but you've got it wrong.

Say, "BIG DOG XXX is ENTERING holding"






.

 

[Singlecoil]

Well, it may not seem hard to you, but you've got it wrong.

Say, "BIG DOG XXX is ENTERING holding"






.

Tony is right. All my IFR training was in a non-radar environment. You would report entering, then they would say, "Roger, report established."

 

[A Squared]

And the NoPT just simply says that you will not be making a procedure turn. Which, really doesn't need to be there in the first place right? I mean, looking at the layout it clearly shows that no PT is even needed to get to the LOC.

Yeah, it really does need to be there. In non-radar ops, if it doesn't say "no PT" you do the procedure turn, even if it looks like you don't need to do it.