When is it an approach?

[C172Heavy]

Just wondering if anyone has any input on the following.

When does flying an IAP become an approach done?

i.e. You are flying in VMC on an IFR plan and fly an approach not under the hood. Can you log this as a completed approach?

What about if the ceiling is 3000' or so and you punch through the layer and complete the approach even though you weren't really in the soup for most of the procedure.

Thanks for any input.

 

[sydeseet]

The approach phase begins at the initial approach point/fix; hence the term. This is the divider between the enroute and/or feeder portion. You must be IMC (simulated or real) inside the final approach fix to count the appoach for currency. No, you cannot log a VMC approach without wearing the hood.

 

[seattle]

If the IAP starts at the IAF then shouldn't I be able to count an approach flown when IMC (even just a little bit IMC) inside the IAF.

Example: (VOR Approach W/ On Airport NAV Station)
Let's say MEA to the on-airport VOR is 3000MSL - the VOR is the IAF. If VMC starts at 2999MSL then I should be able to count the approach.

I'll agree that you're probably not giving your instrument skills any great workout as you fly the procedure turn in VMC. However, gradually reducing personal minimums from this extreme allows a new instrument pilot to build confidence while maintaining currency.

There isn't a FAR that covers this issue.... is there?

Anyway, that's my $0.02.

Seattle

 

[sydeseet]

The rule, and I can't remember what FAR it is, is that you must be IMC at the FAF to log the approach for currency. A 2000-3000 foot ceiling is technically VFR (good VFR by most standards). This is what I was taught during my CFII which was restated during the oral by the DE. Logging an approach is saying that you successfully COMPLETED an approach (or darn close - FAF) not just that you began one. It makes sense. Besides, a new instrument pilot should get an IPC every six month's until he has some real experience; not just for safety, but for confidence.

 

[bobbysamd]

Logging approaches

I second "Sydeseet." You have to be in IMC at the IAF to count the approach. Now, let's say you break out at 1000 AGL. It still counts as an approach and you can count it for currency.

Sorry, folks, unless you're hooded in VFR you can't count the approach, even if you're on an IFR flight plan.

We used to file, even in the local area when we'd go shoot approaches. It seemed that we received better handling that way and ATC certainly didn't discourage it.

 

[avbug]

Take it a step farther. The FAA has held that for the purposes of meeting the currency requirements of FAR 61.57(c), the approach must be flown under actual or simulated instrument conditions to minimums. If the approach is not flown to minimums, it is does not count. There is no specific requirement about starting at the FAF, or published FAF; one must fly the proceedure by reference to instruments, to the minimums specified for the approach proceedure.

One may also perform the required approaches in a simulator or approved flight training device, per the applicable regulation.

I don't have the energy to go dig it up tonight, but legal interpretations bear this out, and similiar reference (although not binding) may be found at the FAA FAQ site.

The presence of instrument conditions for a portion of the approach are not adequate to qualify; the proceedure must be flown by reference to instruments, simulated, or actual.

One does NOT need to wear a "hood", or other view limiting device. One may accomplish simulated reference by ducking one's head down below the panel, in some aircraft. So long as the flight is conducted by reference to instruments, and not outside visual cues, and is executed to minimums,the approach may be used for the sake of meeting the currency requirements of 61.57.

Think about the purpose of currency. It's not about visually flying down the glideslope and calling it good. It's about a bare minimum standard for instrument experience. One does not gain meaningful instrument experience flying a visual approach, or an instrument approach visually, and this cannot be applied to the currency requriements of 61.57.

 

[seattle]

Ok, it's education time for me.

If I understand what y'all are saying then for an approach with no FAF I must be IMC (or hooded) down to MDA to count it?

While we're on the topic. I want to go get some hood time in an attempt to maintain my currency. I fly a complex airplane. The safety pilot doesn't need to have a complex signoff does he/she? Does the safety pilot need to be current?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Seattle

 

[enigma]

If I get cleared for the approach and the ATIS reports conditions that constitute IMC, And I fly any portion of the procedure without outside visual reference; Then I log an approach. I find this to be entirely reasonable and wouldn't mind defending that position to an inspector. In reality, unless you crash and the Feds give your logs a finetooth comb review, no one will ever know the w/x conditions that were present when you logged approaches. Even then, it would be hard to prove that you weren't IMC at the MAP.
The really important thing is that you don't shortchange yourself. The currency requirement was put there to protect you and your pax. Don't go out and attempt a 200 and a half ILS when your only recent experience was being IMC between the intermediate and final fixes on a day that had good vis below that deck.

Avbug states that the FAA has given an opinion that holds that you must be IMC down to minumums in order to count the approach for currency, and he rarely has his facts wrong. So I will concur, that you need to have minimum w/x to count the approach towards the currency requirement. Luckily, I think, I get to stay current by taking a PC every six months.

If you don't have the opportunity to get actual minimums approaches, I suggest that you get a safety pilot and wear the hood down to the MAP. Just remember that the visual image you get when at minimums in hard IMC, is dramatically different from the one you get when you pop the hood off in CAVU w/x.

regards

 

[seattle]

Thanks for the reply.

What's your take on the safety pilot recurrency and complex signoff issues?

 

[Simon Says]

The only way that I log an approach is if the field is IFR. That means you cannot get a visual, and you have to fly the approach "weather" I am IMC or not. Again, because of all of the gray areas of logging time, I justify all of my entries in my logbook by being able to comfortably answer any questions posed by an interview board.

Question though...........Is a Contact approach an IFR manuver?