Whe are you considered established?

[Singlecoil]

I don't have a reference, but it is my understanding that ATC will protect more airspace when entering holding than when established. If in non-radar they will ask you to report established so they can shrink the amount of airspace around you they are protecting.

It is up to you to determine when you are in the confines of the standard hold and make the report.

A wide direct entry or a parallel entry could put you outside of that smaller protected area.

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

I'm no ATC guru but I've talked to an air traffic controller on this one and they don't care. All they want to know is that you're in the hold and out of their hair. Everyone I know that flies professionally seems to report time and altitude crossing the fix intially. It seems that pilots often split hairs about things like this regarding ATC and most often the controllers don't care. Just get it done.

 

[328dude]

Im sure ATC dosen't care. That wasent my argument. But for us that are flying glass or FMS equiped aircraft, they give you the hold, you punch it in, it draws a pretty picture on your screen, the airplane flies the hold...my question, when would you tell them that your entering the hold. crossing the fix the first time to start the entry or after the entry is complete and you past the fix again and the airplane is happy again?

This is pretty trivial I know, but it's fun how many diffrent answers you get and everyone being taught diffrent ways.
I asked the feds today, guess what? I got a "ummmm, not real sure about that" Go figure. God Bless the FAA.

 

[bigsky]

AA Flyer :
I was not specific enough and was only refering to 172 drivers first paragraph about only needing to report time and altitude upon reaching fix. As far as slowing on the outbound leg- heck we cant even get slowed enough to fit in the categories of the Faa or/i.c.a.o table 1hold speeds- more less worried about a few seconds outbound.
As far as I am concerned the word established does not seem to exist in the regs(with regards to holding) so I guess it can mean something different to everyone. I have seen cases where the term is used- for example being established on course prior to beginning descent.
I myself report crossing the fix--otherwise last week when I held over a NDB in Frankfurt(I.N.S. equiped airplane-didnt have G.P.S or hold capability) for 20 minutes I never would have reported established... and I cant imagine that is the intent of ATC...theoretically if you had to wait till you had a perfect hold to report established and then you have a screwup or winds change I would think one would then have to report "unestablished"