What's with UAL Jumpseat???

[flying4food]

Attempted to jumpseat Wed on United. The gate agent tells me the flight is only 50% full, not a problem getting a ride. When I checked in with the Capt, he told me he already had a jumpseater, sorry!! As I was leaving the agent told me there was over 60 empty seats on the airplane, he couldn't understand why he said no!!

First time in 6 months that this has happened, is this a new policy or a Capt just not wanting guys/gals hitching a ride??

If this is United's policy to only allow 1 jumpseater, (even though there are 50 open seats in back), should other carriers look into only allowing 1 United crewmember onboard their aircraft, fair is fair. Just wondering if others have encountered this and what your thoughts are!!

Other carriers ie; Continental, America West, Frontier, Alaska etc that I have jumped on have taken as many as they have seats for!!

 

[CaptainBrazilia]

I've commuted on United between LAX and DEN for the past two years, and that's been the policy as far as I know. They MAY take (at the captain's discretion) up to TWICE the number of actual jumpseats installed, provided there are enough seats in the back...but there may be a requirement for the actual to be occupied before that can occur (not sure...United guys can tell you for certain). Only United and United Express pilots may ride in the actual jumpseat (employment/qualification verification required through United's computer system).

Through the last two years of commuting to DEN, I've been treated very well by United's flight crews. DEN gate-agents leave a *bit* to be desired in the "being kind" department, but all in all it's been very easy. I'm very grateful to them, and glad to see them in my jumpseat in return.

 

[Hutcha]

There are a few that only allow 1 jumpseat per plane. There was a pretty long thread on it (and other jumpseat topics) a few weeks back (here's the link) .
Without getting into it, some airlines will let you fill every empty seat with jumpseaters, and some only give one.

Good Luck..

 

[TWA Dude]

Other carriers ie; Continental, America West, Frontier, Alaska etc that I have jumped on have taken as many as they have seats for!!

The airline sets or authorizes jumpseat policy, not the captain. The captain only has the final authority to deny the jumpseat. Having said that there's plenty of times when gate agents and captains have worked together to get additional pilots on but it still violates company policy.

Keep in mind that off-line jumpseating didn't arrive universally until the late '90s when DALPA finally got management to allow jumpseaters. At American anytime the APA approaches management to allow unlimited jumpseating they get a "it isn't fair to the other employees" speech, as if AA actually cared about any of it's employees. Heck, if it were up to me I'd allow FA's to sit in the cockpit jumpseat as well. Right now we need to focus on getting the cockpit jumpseat opened up to off-line pilots again.

Dude

 

[fracflyer]

This has always been the UAL policy regarding offline jumpseaters. You can only take as many as there are jumpseats installed in the aircraft. Doesn't matter if there are 300 empty seats in the back.

 

[crashpad]

Re: Re: What's with UAL Jumpseat???

The airline sets or authorizes jumpseat policy, not the captain. The captain only has the final authority to deny the jumpseat. Having said that there's plenty of times when gate agents and captains have worked together to get additional pilots on but it still violates company policy.
Dude

Duuuuude, violates company policy? Working with agents?
Hellooooo McFly, anybody home?

The Captain is the final authority, period!

Show some backbone and don't hide behind the others. Just say;"My plane, I want to feel powerful by not giving you the jumpseat and try to make you as unhappy as me."

 

[TWA Dude]

Re: Re: Re: What's with UAL Jumpseat???

The Captain is the final authority, period!

Since you're having trouble understanding captain's authority lemme help you out. The captain has the authority to deny the jumpseat for reasons s/he feels are appropriate i.e. security or scabs. The captains does not have the authority to allow a planeload of jumpseaters when company policy allows only one.
If the gate agent can get more pilots on board by being creative with ticketing that's awesome but a captain can't order him/her to do it.

Show some backbone and don't hide behind the others. Just say;"My plane, I want to feel powerful by not giving you the jumpseat and try to make you as unhappy as me."

What the heck are you talking about? You must be responding to somebody else.

Dude

 

[crashpad]

Dude,

I can't argue with you on most of your points because technically you are correct. I'm reminiscent of occasions too many when I was denied the privilege of the jumpseat due to rules.
As a Captain, it's the right thing to be 'creative' when it comes to helping out fellow pilots (regardless of who they work for or politics). And you are correct, it's only with the help of co-workers that share a sense of goodwill. For the most part we all get where we want to go and that's a good thing.

On the flip side, where is the sense in jumping on the same airline where 9 out 10 times the Captain allows plenty to ride, and then the 10th time you don't ride and there's +50 open seats. That's the Captain just feeling the power, IMHO.
It's not fair, but it's free. I just feel sense of duty to fellow pilots.

Oh yeah, here's a favorite rhetorical....how often have you had someone write a pass for themself so you could jumpseat? Did you ask them how much their company charges for it and offer to reemburse them? I insist they take my money because of instances where I did the same for others. I worked for the commuters and the offline jumpers worked for the majors (hand-to-mouth vs rolex). Of every pass I ever paid for, only once did someone offer to reemburse.

 

[JungleJetFO]

Other carriers ie; Continental, America West, Frontier, Alaska etc that I have jumped on have taken as many as they have seats for!!

Completely untrue, leads me to believe you have no idea what you are talking about. Continental is only as many jumpseats as are on the plane, usually one. I've never known United to take more than one.

 

[TWA Dude]

On the flip side, where is the sense in jumping on the same airline where 9 out 10 times the Captain allows plenty to ride, and then the 10th time you don't ride and there's +50 open seats. That's the Captain just feeling the power, IMHO.
It's not fair, but it's free. I just feel sense of duty to fellow pilots.

So now a captain who follows the rules is "feeling the power"? I couldn't disagree with you more. A captain who denies a jumpseater for personal or political reasons is that and worse but a captain who's just following the rules can hardly be called an egomaniac. At most airlines a captain who plays loose with jumpseat policy is risking his job. You and I have both seen many such instances and frankly I admire it. Now that I'm once again in a position to do the same I call my personal policy "cautious". I'll bend the rules when I can and I assure you it's not an ego issue. I've been furloughed and being fired would do me no good at all. I've been jumpseating for eight years and never once have I run into a captain on a power trip. I wish some could add 170 pounds of taxi fuel to get me on but it's not fair to blame them when they won't.

Dude

 

[crashpad]

Adding taxi fuel...I never thought of that. That would be whole different story and I would'nt expect a Captain, nor myself, to go that far either.

Back to the original post...yes, I think an agreement with regard to the number of jumpseats available to each specific airline referenceing how many they'd allow would be the fairest solution.
Probably impossible to implement, but fair.

 

[Ty Webb]

Well, while we're on the subject, there have been 5 docmented instances in the past 12 months where a NWA Capt denied an AirTran pilot a jumpseat, for no reason other than spite.

2 Captains that had this happen to them say "No NWA pilot will ride until they get an apology", and I have heard that very shortly NWA will have NO jumpseat at AirTran. Zip. Nada, Zilch, as in jumpseat for all is lost due to the actions of a few
d!ckheads . . . .

One of these NWA a-holes actually had the audacity to say that all of our pilots are scabs. We have 850 pilots, and maybe 50-100 of them were Eastern scabs . . . . so why should the other 750 of us put up with this crap?

CAL has more scabs then we do . . . so does just about every other airline, so I don;t want to hear any more of this crap from some lousy scum bucket who is pissed because he is now making less as a DC9 captain than an AirTran captain. Talk to your mangement, get a room, whatever, your love life is NOT our problem.

Again, very shortly NWA will have NO jumpseat at AirTran, so p[lan your commute accordingly.

 

[Mugs]

Here is a response from UAL when the question was raised about why the current jumpseat policy is limited to the number of installed jumpseats. Bottom line is that it would cost money to change the system and, well, you know the rest........ (By the way, OMC means Jumpseater)

Q. Why don’t we have “unlimited jumpseats” like Southwest?
For one thing, we don’t have a way to track it. We calculate our weight and balance information based on a "seat map," and everyone must have an assigned seat. Since our current OMC programming doesn't have the ability to assign seats outside the cockpit, changing the provisions would require additional programming and/or extensive work by our CSRs. So, even if we were interested in expanding the OMC program, it would require a great deal of work to make it compatible with FAA/TSA regulations.

Southwest uses more restrictive artificial CG limits when loading fuel and cargo that allows them to load passengers (and jumpseaters) without a seat assignment. This method puts operational restrictions on loading the aircraft that Southwest is willing to accept.

 

[Beer&Brauts]

Doesn't sound like a good reason to me.
I think those computers could easily be reprogrammed to assign a seat.
They could at least compromise and charge a small fee for additional jumpseat riders (like AirTran does).

Delta's policy is the same as UALs. I've watched an empty airplane pushback in ATL a number of times before heading to the hotel after a trip. At least on American it's possible to buy reasonably priced ZED fares, an ID90 from ATL-DEN on DAL runs $102.

That being said I certainly don't fault the crews for not breaking policy and letting me on.

 

[superrav]

I have something to add..Im not an airline pilot. But i would just like to say.. We're pilots...can't we all just get along. I guess i have a lot to learn about the business...If its management..can't airline pilots stand up to them?

FLY SAFE

 

[Thrust Master]

Air Wisconsin used to have the same policy that
UAL had, Number of jumpseat's, number of jump
seaters. This had alot to due with the former DO
we had. One good thing that came about
our new TA was unlimited jumpseaters. If theres
an open seat. I'll get you on if I can.

One problem we have experienced lately is when
a gate agent calls Ops about the jumpseat, Ops
has been telling the CSR's they can't go, no room,
weight restrictions, etc,ect,etc.

This issue is slowly being resolved, I always check
with CSR's to see if there are jumpseaters.
And I let them know if there are any; how many we
can take. Last month I took 5 guys from 5 different
carriers to TVC. I would of took a 6th one but he left
and couldn't be found...

Welcome aboard anytime on AWAC.

Thrust Master

 

[Phil O'Sopher]

FWIW

I last jumpseated on UAL about a year ago, and at that time the Captain told me that as of Dec 01, 2002, they were allowed multiple jumpseaters but that not many people knew about it. He even went so far as to give me the UAL FOM ref, which, if I can still read my writing, was FOM 1.10 - 10 (Section 10) and said that if I tried to jump and the Captain said that the seat was taken, I could, respectfully of course, give him the reference (he didn't think any of the Captains would get their nose out of joint).

I never had occasion to do so but would be interested in hearing from some UAL guys out there if this FOM ref is correct. I've used UAL about six times and have always been treated well.

 

[Big Air]

My company's policy is to allow an unlimted number of jumpseaters in the back. And I am not in favor of restricting UAL pilots who want to jumpseat on my aircraft. BUT maybe we all should ask each UAL jumpseater how they would feel if they were declined a seat eventhough there were empty seats. The point is that if UAL pilots wish to change their company's policy, it may come about.

 

[flyguppy]

BUT maybe we all should ask each UAL jumpseater how they would feel if they were declined a seat eventhough there were empty seats. The point is that if UAL pilots wish to change their company's policy, it may come about.

YGTBFSM!!!

Do ya' really think that we don't want to take unlimited j/s's? Do ya' really think we haven't been trying to get unlimited j/s's? What? You think we don't want to have them, so we don't? Everytime we've gone to the company and asked for it, they want something in return. They use it as a negotiating tool, when it doesn't even affect the operation/revenue if we were allowed unlimiteds. Well, guess what, I got no more hide to give.

Give me a break, "I'll show those UAL (DAL, AA, etc.) pilots what it's like to be denied a seat". Sheesh!

 

[Big Air]

Let me just repeat:

Although I don't agree with UAL's policy, I would NEVER take it out on a UAL pilot.