What's the skinny on hiring conferences?

[Ty Webb]

Ty,

I think your avatar is making fun of people who might move to Montana and raise up a crop of dental floss. Or who suffer from "stink foot".

Now, that really hurts. . . . . . that's my high school graduation picture, circa 1984.

Nah. As you probably recognized, it's the late, great Frank Zappa. Saw it on some news story and thought it would be fun to try on for a week.. . . in honor of the "Joe's Garage" album.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Ty, I was looking for a good avtar and found this. It went well with my callsign "WiskeyDriver"

WD.

 

[getfurloaded]

affirmitave action

All I can say is,

I betcha there are a lot of pilots on the street with out a pot to piss in right now that were hired as a result of affirmative action. He He He. Sucks to be underqualified nowadays, I dont care what color you are or what you have in your pants.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Re: affirmitave action

All I can say is,

I betcha there are a lot of pilots on the street with out a pot to piss in right now that were hired as a result of affirmative action. He He He. Sucks to be underqualified nowadays, I dont care what color you are or what you have in your pants.

Really trying to understand your point! It would seem on the surface by your comment that every minority pilot is underqualified and that they were only hired as a result of affirmative action, is this what you are attempting to say??

WD.

 

[secks]

It amazes me that businesses can legally favor one applicant over another on the basis of race, rather than merit. I guess as long as white males are on the losing end, it isn't racism.

 

[flx757]

As you probably recognized, it's the late, great Frank Zappa.

Yep. I was referencing a couple of my favorite Zappa songs in my post.

 

[Ty Webb]

Re: can whites attend or blacks only?

I thought the whole deal was for equality, not discrimination against whites. OBAP ... What a Freaking joke.[/i]


While I don't agree with preferential hiring, statements like this are wrong-headed. There's no reason to be disrespectful.

There was definitely a time and a place that this organization was needed . . . . I just think that at the airline level, that time has probably passed. . . . and anyting that appears to give one "group" an advantage in times like this tend to cause resentment.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

It amazes me that businesses can legally favor one applicant over another on the basis of race, rather than merit. I guess as long as white males are on the losing end, it isn't racism.

Ok, just remember that you wanted to go there not me, so allow me to enlighten the Ignorant. In 1976, approximately 80 black pilots were employed by the nation's major and commuter passenger airlines and freight carriers. By 1986 that number had risen to nearly 400, and today the total is estimated to be 674, including at least 14 black female pilots (thanks to Bessie Coleman). While the total increase is impressive on the surface, one must realize that there is a total of over 71,000 pilots working for these airlines. The struggle to expand African-American Pilot presence in the faces of unfair hiring/retention practices continues to be an uphill effort, and promises to become increasingly difficult as the generation of black pilots (hired in the 60's) has already begun to reach mandatory retirement age. Additionally, the military, which serves as a traditional source of airline pilots, especially black pilots , is rapidly being downsized.

Now I see your point it never has been fair has it??????

WD.

 

[Ty Webb]

WD, I think you are making my point . . .

The number of black pilots is so low because there aren't that many black pilots entering training. To say that there are only 600 out of 60,000 or whatever doesn't indicate discrimination at the employment level, it indicates a lack of student starts.

If there are 250,000 active pilots (just making this up) then there would have to be 40,000 black pilots, just to be representative of the black population. Then you could say that there should be 6000 or 7000 black pilots.

I would be interested to see how many black pilots there are that are qualified for an airline job, and of that number, how many are unable to find a pilot job . . . that number would be more relevant.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Ty,

There are out there, in fact if you came to the convention you would see what I mean!!! Throughout the ages there have always been excuses as to why women and other minorities were not hired by airlines, but the simple fact of it doesn't change. I am all for fair hiring practices but at what point is it fair or better where do we begin?? A little off the subject but with the same point, in the 70's the Detroit police department was over 98% caucasian. The mayor at the time decided the only way to make it fair was to have a 50/50 mix so he put into place the hiring of more minority officers now I won't go into all of the details but my father who was hired prior to the big hiring push told me of the stories of how bad it was and how he was treated by his fellow officers. Now I am not saying that this is what should happen here but I again ask where do we begin??

WD.

 

[Swerpipe]

Some guys should relax...

The OBAP organization is an organization that provides an opportunity for networking and information. Here is a similar organization:

1)Or ganization Of Squadron Buddies for The Hiring of our Other Squadron Buddies


2)Organization of Daughters and Sons of Airlines Pilots So That They Can Be Hired as Soon as They Meet the Minimum Set of Qualifications

The work Black in OBAP may be offensive to some but being a pilot and having been to the airport so many times, you know what? I've never been flown by a black pilot yet in my whole life (What a coincidence!!!) And I have only spotted a couple here and there. As far as quotas, if they were any, you'd probably see more minorities flying and an organization like OBAP would loose purpose. Let me know which airlines have them.

BTW I am not black.

 

[secks]

Ok, just remember that you wanted to go there not me, so allow me to enlighten the Ignorant. In 1976, approximately 80 black pilots were employed by the nation's major and commuter passenger airlines and freight carriers. By 1986 that number had risen to nearly 400, and today the total is estimated to be 674, including at least 14 black female pilots (thanks to Bessie Coleman). While the total increase is impressive on the surface, one must realize that there is a total of over 71,000 pilots working for these airlines. The struggle to expand African-American Pilot presence in the faces of unfair hiring/retention practices continues to be an uphill effort, and promises to become increasingly difficult as the generation of black pilots (hired in the 60's) has already begun to reach mandatory retirement age. Additionally, the military, which serves as a traditional source of airline pilots, especially black pilots , is rapidly being downsized.

Now I see your point it never has been fair has it??????

WD.

The only evidence you have for "unfair" hiring practices is low numbers of black pilots flying for the airlines. Using your logic, anytime a racial "gap" exists in a labor market, "unfair" hiring practices are being employed. This logic is flawed. No one cries foul when sports teams draft practically all black teams, do they? However, when the head coaches are disproportionately white, people claim that there is a "problem". The only problem here is people not realizing that the Jim Crow South is long dead, and no longer serves as an excuse for not making yourself competitive with everyone else. The issue here is labor supply, not discrimination. I don't see many caucasian black history professors, do you? Must be racism!

Instead of discriminating against white, male pilots (which is exactly what this does), how about you shift your efforts to enticing black people to pursue a career in aviation? This is a much more positive step. Your "progressive" measures do nothing more than advance relatively inexperienced pilots through the ranks and cause resentment among white pilots who are trying to feed their families.

 

[secks]

Re: Some guys should relax...

The OBAP organization is an organization that provides an opportunity for networking and information. Here is a similar organization:

1)Or ganization Of Squadron Buddies for The Hiring of our Other Squadron Buddies


2)Organization of Daughters and Sons of Airlines Pilots So That They Can Be Hired as Soon as They Meet the Minimum Set of Qualifications

The work Black in OBAP may be offensive to some but being a pilot and having been to the airport so many times, you know what? I've never been flown by a black pilot yet in my whole life (What a coincidence!!!) And I have only spotted a couple here and there. As far as quotas, if they were any, you'd probably see more minorities flying and an organization like OBAP would loose purpose. Let me know which airlines have them.

BTW I am not black.

Wait a second. Are you actually suggesting that the racial gap in the airlines is caused by a "good ol' boy system"? At best, it's a factor, and a very minute one at that. What you ought to ask yourself is: How many black students have I seen in flight school?

 

[Swerpipe]

A Minute factor right

secks,

"At best, it's a factor, and a very minute one at that"

You know that in this business it is who you know and not what you know. So, if there a very few minorities to start with, who are they going to know? BTW, having squadron buddies and relatives in airlines or friends a "minute factor", if you think that you are misinformed IMHO. OBAP is about networking and mentoring minorites to get competitive so that they can be hired. It's not about hiring people that are underqualified. It is always easy to look the other way.

 

[secks]

Swerpipe:

Again, how many black students do you see enrolled in flight school? And how many black pilots do you see flying for the majors? See a connection?

I've got no problem with a networking program which places an emphasis on minorities. It's a free country. What I do have a problem with is hiring practices which turn away better qualified white applicants for having the wrong color of skin.

Besides, why can't a black guy network just like a white guy? Can't black guys develop connections with white guys? The only argument I can see here is having relatives in the aviation business gives an unfair advantage. This is true, but again, I don't think that the family factor is a big one. If it were a big factor, then the airlines should give an advantage to those who don't have family in the airlines, not just black guys. Think about all the white guys out there who don't have relatives in the field.