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What's Great Lakes up to?
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Alaskaairlines
Future Airline Pilot
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2003
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- 345
TxFlyerDave
New member
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Check My Thread
Now that you've stopped giggling at the title...
If you're looking for Great Lakes updates, look for my thread..."Great Lakes Info?", posted a little while back.
My thanks to those of you that took the time to reply, especially those that sent messages to my e-mail address.
Like I said, "Info=peace of mind"
Now that you've stopped giggling at the title...
If you're looking for Great Lakes updates, look for my thread..."Great Lakes Info?", posted a little while back.
My thanks to those of you that took the time to reply, especially those that sent messages to my e-mail address.
Like I said, "Info=peace of mind"
Alaskaairlines
Future Airline Pilot
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2003
- Posts
- 345
Palerider957
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2003
- Posts
- 975
Hey Alaska:
With all due respect, you really don't know what you're talking about. All of us love to fly, all of us have paid a lot of dues to get our jobs. There comes a point when you need to actually make some kind of $$ to pay student loans, car payments, put food on the table, etc.
With 100 hrs and a PPL, you have JUST started to enter the profession. Most of us have worked our a$$es off to get our jobs (and keep them). Getting above poverty wages is a real struggle for regional pilots. When you're 21 with no real attachments you can afford to live lean, when you're 33 with a family and a stack of bills to pay--it burns your a$$ to work so hard for a pittance. That's why pay is such a hot button issue on these boards.
The company each of us works for is also a major issue. Some companies treat people well, others don't. I've heard really awful things about Great Lakes, but I've never worked their so I don't know. My company, when I first started, treated people woarse than I've ever been treated in my life (this includes 6 years as a city cop), now it's s-l-o-w-l-y getting better. Your companies policies, union contract, pay, seniority, and equipment totally dictate you quality of life.
When you get to a regional, the glow of a new hire will fade pretty fast and youl realize the job IS real work. Sometimes it's a lot of fun, other times you hate it...that's just reality in any job.
I don't mean to stand on a soap box and preach, but with your experience you should tread lightly. Good luck to you!!!
With all due respect, you really don't know what you're talking about. All of us love to fly, all of us have paid a lot of dues to get our jobs. There comes a point when you need to actually make some kind of $$ to pay student loans, car payments, put food on the table, etc.
With 100 hrs and a PPL, you have JUST started to enter the profession. Most of us have worked our a$$es off to get our jobs (and keep them). Getting above poverty wages is a real struggle for regional pilots. When you're 21 with no real attachments you can afford to live lean, when you're 33 with a family and a stack of bills to pay--it burns your a$$ to work so hard for a pittance. That's why pay is such a hot button issue on these boards.
The company each of us works for is also a major issue. Some companies treat people well, others don't. I've heard really awful things about Great Lakes, but I've never worked their so I don't know. My company, when I first started, treated people woarse than I've ever been treated in my life (this includes 6 years as a city cop), now it's s-l-o-w-l-y getting better. Your companies policies, union contract, pay, seniority, and equipment totally dictate you quality of life.
When you get to a regional, the glow of a new hire will fade pretty fast and youl realize the job IS real work. Sometimes it's a lot of fun, other times you hate it...that's just reality in any job.
I don't mean to stand on a soap box and preach, but with your experience you should tread lightly. Good luck to you!!!
PBRstreetgang
Registered Abuser
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2002
- Posts
- 3,241
Ditto Above,
The "Dream"=
Start at the hotel @ 0430LCL time,
fly all day, with minimum time for meals(APT food).
Finish up @ 1845LCL time, drive back to the hotel.
Do this 4 days in a row, this job is work!
Add welfare wages to add something to worry about when you get back to the hotel.
Oh yes, I only have my home electricity turned off twice while on a trip.
All you wanna bees I applaud your enthusiam, but please temper that with the reality that someday you may want to have a family or even(gasp), a room of your own to live in. Current newhire pay will not allow the dream of living like an adult until the second, third or even fourth year pay. I have just finished paying off newhire pay from two carriers.
BTW I am currently 4th year CRJ payscale and word is the company wants to take some of that away as we speak.
Ola
PBR
The "Dream"=
Start at the hotel @ 0430LCL time,
fly all day, with minimum time for meals(APT food).
Finish up @ 1845LCL time, drive back to the hotel.
Do this 4 days in a row, this job is work!
Add welfare wages to add something to worry about when you get back to the hotel.
Oh yes, I only have my home electricity turned off twice while on a trip.
All you wanna bees I applaud your enthusiam, but please temper that with the reality that someday you may want to have a family or even(gasp), a room of your own to live in. Current newhire pay will not allow the dream of living like an adult until the second, third or even fourth year pay. I have just finished paying off newhire pay from two carriers.
BTW I am currently 4th year CRJ payscale and word is the company wants to take some of that away as we speak.
Ola
PBR
Cargoboy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2003
- Posts
- 50
I agree to the two above posts with PBR and Palerider.
Love of a job or to want to fly shouldn't mean that we have to sell our souls and get treated like common office boys/gals. Most of us here have worked hard to get where we are with education as well as the high costs of flying. For the amount of knowledge we are suppose to have and accomplished we should be compensated better for it. Most jobs that none of us would even need and education for start out higher than some of us make our first years flying. Now, I am not thinking that since I have accomp[lished this level of training and education I deserve the entire farm. But, (and I don't know who would disagree with me here with this) I think we should be paid a level of compensation that is above the poverty line. It is a very sad thing that we as piots have allowed ourselves to be sold out like this. I just hope that our employers someday can understand that we are trained for a highly skilled position and understand that as we respect them, that they should respect us and I feel that loyality and employees behavior would be different.
I love flying as much as anyone else on this board. If any of us really weren't sure, I think after reading posts here would quit and find something else. So, all we can do as a large group of pilots is stick together and work together with our employers and unions and contracts and try a make it a better life for us.
In the meantime, I will be flying cargo 4 days a week and working a second job on my layover and my part time job at home in the cities a few days a week. Making my ends meet and trying to keep on top of my bills and helping my family to survive.
Someday I know it will be great. Til then I cross my fingers and wait for my 121 job to call me back on my resume.
Love of a job or to want to fly shouldn't mean that we have to sell our souls and get treated like common office boys/gals. Most of us here have worked hard to get where we are with education as well as the high costs of flying. For the amount of knowledge we are suppose to have and accomplished we should be compensated better for it. Most jobs that none of us would even need and education for start out higher than some of us make our first years flying. Now, I am not thinking that since I have accomp[lished this level of training and education I deserve the entire farm. But, (and I don't know who would disagree with me here with this) I think we should be paid a level of compensation that is above the poverty line. It is a very sad thing that we as piots have allowed ourselves to be sold out like this. I just hope that our employers someday can understand that we are trained for a highly skilled position and understand that as we respect them, that they should respect us and I feel that loyality and employees behavior would be different.
I love flying as much as anyone else on this board. If any of us really weren't sure, I think after reading posts here would quit and find something else. So, all we can do as a large group of pilots is stick together and work together with our employers and unions and contracts and try a make it a better life for us.
In the meantime, I will be flying cargo 4 days a week and working a second job on my layover and my part time job at home in the cities a few days a week. Making my ends meet and trying to keep on top of my bills and helping my family to survive.
Someday I know it will be great. Til then I cross my fingers and wait for my 121 job to call me back on my resume.
Alaskaairlines
Future Airline Pilot
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2003
- Posts
- 345
Pale,
I agree with your post. Hats off to all the guys who fly! I am on the path to the flight deck, but have many obstacles to overcome.
I do understand 18K for a year is horrendous, and they do need more, but I think many of them are just happy to have a job and live in a shoebox.
Anyways, I agree with your post.
I agree with your post. Hats off to all the guys who fly! I am on the path to the flight deck, but have many obstacles to overcome.
I do understand 18K for a year is horrendous, and they do need more, but I think many of them are just happy to have a job and live in a shoebox.
Anyways, I agree with your post.
Alaska,
If you think $18,000 is horrendous, check this out.
15.30 (1st year FO pay at Great Lakes)
X 75 (hourly guarantee)
X 12 (months)
----------------
= $13,770 gross wages annually
Granted, many GLA pilots fly above 75 hours a month.
Hey, I too was excited when I first started at GLA. But, I would not call flying for Great Lakes "living the dream". More like a nightmare.
Anyway, good luck to you.
If you think $18,000 is horrendous, check this out.
15.30 (1st year FO pay at Great Lakes)
X 75 (hourly guarantee)
X 12 (months)
----------------
= $13,770 gross wages annually
Granted, many GLA pilots fly above 75 hours a month.
Hey, I too was excited when I first started at GLA. But, I would not call flying for Great Lakes "living the dream". More like a nightmare.
Anyway, good luck to you.
Alaskaairlines
Future Airline Pilot
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2003
- Posts
- 345
atpcliff
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 4,260
Hi!
AA:
If you look at fly26's profile, he's now flying a CE-560XL, which is some type of bizjet (Citation) and not a plane that Lakes has.
He's probably flying for a fractional (NetJets or Flight Options probably) or possibly a company. I'm sure he was glad to get out of Great Lakes.
I met one guy from there that got hired by ACA. He was based at, I think, 6 different bases in less than a year. He said most of the married guys he knew there got divorced.
If you're single, and live with your parents, or with a bunch of other single pilots, it's probably OK if you can't find anything else.
Cliff
GRB
AA:
If you look at fly26's profile, he's now flying a CE-560XL, which is some type of bizjet (Citation) and not a plane that Lakes has.
He's probably flying for a fractional (NetJets or Flight Options probably) or possibly a company. I'm sure he was glad to get out of Great Lakes.
I met one guy from there that got hired by ACA. He was based at, I think, 6 different bases in less than a year. He said most of the married guys he knew there got divorced.
If you're single, and live with your parents, or with a bunch of other single pilots, it's probably OK if you can't find anything else.
Cliff
GRB
flying4food
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2002
- Posts
- 171
Cardinal
Of The Kremlin
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 2,308
fly26 said:
One factor to add is Per Diem. Admittedly, most of it'll be burnt on food but it is to be considered. With such small numbers a little can mean a lot. Almost all of the March lines have at least 300 hours away from base, therefore:
1.00 (Per Diem rate)
X 300 (TAFB)
X 12 (months)
----------------
= $3,600 tax-free Per Diem annually
13,770
+ 3,600
-----------------
= $17370
ORD is no longer a crew-base, and with the death of ALO last Thursday, has but one outstation, OSH. It was still operating last week, dunno if the end has come.
Last edited:
Cardinal
Of The Kremlin
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 2,308
Hey, Dmitry, nice stuff on Airliners.net!
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/309929/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/309929/L/
Alaskaairlines
Future Airline Pilot
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2003
- Posts
- 345
atpcliff
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 4,260
Hi!
There was an article on them in the latest "Aviation International News". They have a new CEO who's trying to turn things around there and make money for the 1st time in 3 years or so.
They wanted me to come in as a Capt off the street after not flying for 10 years. I didn't think that was very realistic and didn't come in for the interview.
It is a flying job, and they are hard to come by.
It I was a CFI, I would continue that until I got in at a better airline. I was at TSA last year, and they are a huge improvement over Great Lakes, in my opinion. THey take guys with similar time that Great Lakes wants.
Cliff
GRB
There was an article on them in the latest "Aviation International News". They have a new CEO who's trying to turn things around there and make money for the 1st time in 3 years or so.
They wanted me to come in as a Capt off the street after not flying for 10 years. I didn't think that was very realistic and didn't come in for the interview.
It is a flying job, and they are hard to come by.
It I was a CFI, I would continue that until I got in at a better airline. I was at TSA last year, and they are a huge improvement over Great Lakes, in my opinion. THey take guys with similar time that Great Lakes wants.
Cliff
GRB
Future SNA
KILL
- Joined
- May 22, 2002
- Posts
- 244
You won't get on with TSA right now with anywhere CLOSE to what you could get on with lakes at. I do agree they used to hire lowtimers, I interviewed with all of 650 hours back in the day, luckily I didn't get the job cause I'd been furloughed 4 months later. But now, I hear the competitive minimums at TSA, no matter what is posted on the web, are easily double that.
Maxx Power
New member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2003
- Posts
- 4
GLA MX
This was several years ago, but remember Great Lakes shut down for a short while to get the MX side of the house in order. They had to do that or the Feds were going to shut them down. I quit 3 weeks before the shutdown. I was not surprised by the shutdown. They once dispatched us in an E-120 with 13 MELs!!!!
I sure hope things are better now. Although when I was there it was the worst airline I have ever seen.
This was several years ago, but remember Great Lakes shut down for a short while to get the MX side of the house in order. They had to do that or the Feds were going to shut them down. I quit 3 weeks before the shutdown. I was not surprised by the shutdown. They once dispatched us in an E-120 with 13 MELs!!!!
I sure hope things are better now. Although when I was there it was the worst airline I have ever seen.
Hi Guys,
I'm with you all the way on the pay, benefits and work rules stuff. Like you I've worked hard, finished college on active duty and now I'm making a meager salary flight instructing ( although, shovelling more snow than flying this past week). HOWEVER, here is the secret...Marry a nurse! My wife makes $25.00 an hour works 32 hours a week and gets paid for 40, she has great benefits and lots of room for growth within her profession!
So, I consdier myself being very fortunate to have a "Sugar Momma" to subsidize my flying career. Granted I change a helluva lot of diapers, had to learn to cook, etc...ad nauseum...
Best of luck to all you guys out there struggling, believe me I know how you feel after a career in the military as an enlisted flight crewmember.
Regards,
ex-Navy Rotorhead
I'm with you all the way on the pay, benefits and work rules stuff. Like you I've worked hard, finished college on active duty and now I'm making a meager salary flight instructing ( although, shovelling more snow than flying this past week). HOWEVER, here is the secret...Marry a nurse! My wife makes $25.00 an hour works 32 hours a week and gets paid for 40, she has great benefits and lots of room for growth within her profession!
So, I consdier myself being very fortunate to have a "Sugar Momma" to subsidize my flying career. Granted I change a helluva lot of diapers, had to learn to cook, etc...ad nauseum...
Best of luck to all you guys out there struggling, believe me I know how you feel after a career in the military as an enlisted flight crewmember.
Regards,
ex-Navy Rotorhead
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