What you need to see in the next XJT contract?

[COOPERVANE]

This guy gets it. In any case, focussing on specific details isn't very wise. Wait for the TA and vote on the total package. Until then let's not negotiate in public.

Im Not negotiating. I know some in mgmt read this board.

What I want them to read is that I'm ready to see this place go away before I sign a concessionary deal. Not chest thumping, not playing brinksmanship. I really will walk away if necessary.

I have saved up enough to live for a year with no pay. If they really are going to shrink us if we don't play ball, then let them shrink us. It will take at least a year or two. If someone (major) doesn't hire me in the next 2-3 years its time for me to get out anyway.

I chose ASA years ago because I thought it was a good, relatively stable company. A place where I could even retire in case I never made it to a major. The regional environment and bad mgmt has made this a horrible place to work (yes I know Pcl is supposedly worse) so for ME, I'm not going to contribute to the demise of THIS profession. I'm just going to walk away.

I think we are going to be given a similar ultimatum that PCL got. Lots on this board criticized them for their vote. It's time to see if we puss out like they did.

 

[Nevets]

I question your assertions that talking about details and negotiating in public isn't very wise.

The majority of the MEC has shown that they don't really care about the plight of reserves (just as you showed when you supported the company's abuse of involuntary TDY in your post above). So the MEC will come out with a TA that throws a few bones to reserves, but has few meaningful reforms, and they will sell it to us.

Wouldn't it be better if we the pilots had had more of a discussion ahead of their spin, regarding just what we're willing to accept? I can only see a thread full of demands for improvement as being helpful to the cause, that of informing the majority of the pilot group about real pilot grievances, not just selling what the MEC feels is in their best interest.

Many XJT pilots made their demands public in this forum and others only to have ASA pilots tell them that they need to get on board, they are dreaming, the company is never going to agree to that, we don't want to have the industry leading contract, that's why you were going bankrupt, etc etc.

I
I think we are going to be given a similar ultimatum that PCL got. Lots on this board criticized them for their vote. It's time to see if we puss out like they did.

I think you are right. We will probably get the "if we ratify this TA we have a very good chance of getting the remainder if the ejets Skywest bought. I'm not optimistic that we will hold the line like eagle though.

 

[JustaNumber]

Many XJT pilots made their demands public in this forum and others only to have ASA pilots tell them that they need to get on board, they are dreaming, the company is never going to agree to that, we don't want to have the industry leading contract, that's why you were going bankrupt, etc etc.

Point taken. But I still think it is in the best interests of the pilot group as a whole for us to discuss what it is we need. If we agree we don't need Comair 2001+20%, so be it. But this method allows the average line pilot to actually have some input, as opposed to listening to the attitude of the MEC, which seems to be similar to that of most politicians these days: it's not wise to talk about what you want, just leave everything to us, we'll give you what you need.

 

[Freebrd]

heck ASA MEC Chair hasn't flown in how long, doesn't a Rep not have a current medical, etc etc

 

[centralpilot]

I don't think you understand the situation. Day 1 I left my car in my domicile's parking lot; I stayed in company-provided hotels for 5 nights; I returned to my car on day 6. I'm sorry, but just calling part of the trip "TDY", which I never volunteered for, does not change the fact that Day 1's deadhead travel to the company hotel, followed by the "day trip" out of the other domicile, were in fact part of a 6-day trip. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE!

You're not the chief pilot I talked to, are you?

Fair enough. I did misunderstand the situation you described. That does suck and I hope we have stronger language preventing that many consecutive overnights out of domicile.

 

[goahead]

I'd like free beer and wings at every hotel upon arrival please.

 

[JustaNumber]

I'd like free beer and wings at every hotel upon arrival please.

That's been tried at a couple hotels we used to stay at. Trust me, you'd rather pay for better quality yourself! (Unless you really like cheap lite beer in a can).

 

[ASApuppy]

My 2 cents (which ain't worth that).

I don't care for more money than my peers. But I care deeply about the amount of control the company has over the quality of life items. I missed the George and John days, but I recall the days before King Tutt and his MiniMe (SH). Back then we rarely did 4 days. The Senior guys did day lines. Then is was 3 days, back to back 2 days, and naps. Heck even relief lines went senior to naps. I think we erred by applying duty rigs to naps in the last contract. Seriously, one already makes double time for a nap line, does it really need to be triple? Since we got that duty rig, the naps are half as many as there use to be and half the 4 day trip are full of 5am duty in's. Serious degradation of quality of life for more pilots than those that benefit from extra $$. We must be mindful of not spending 'negotiating capital' on items that the new crew rest rules will take care of. The 30 in 7 is gone and that's huge. I see 5 day trips as fitting right in. I would prefer not to do them, but I can imagine that if they were built fairly high credit that they would become quite popular with commuters if it went 3 trips total for the month.

Where we need to focus on scheduling is flexibility. We don't have any and the company is afraid to give us any. But I honestly think we have less "captivity", we would be more willing to pick up stuff. But when forced to work oppressive 4 days with no virtual variety or ability to swap, people give up caring. If I can't move a trip a day due to low coverage, I call in sick for the whole thing. Yes, I have limited bullets for that campaign, but I have a few. I like how some carriers offer extra pay for 'overtime' pay. Add that. Add an ability to drop a trip or part of a trip. Put some common sense into it. I realize we will never all have Xmas off, but we could make some step toward more flexibility.

I think we need to position ourselves to ease the obstacles in the way with a possible merger with SkyWest. I can't help but believe that our best future is one company, one list. With that, I embrace dual qual. It is better for our customer (is it not possible that we could have added a -700 or two into the mix at IAD?), and better for schedules. I know the money and the money for our Senior guys is important. I don't have an easy answer. The SkyWest and the new LXJT 70seat agreement are interesting.

 

[zawillif]

My 2 cents (which ain't worth that).

I don't care for more money than my peers. But I care deeply about the amount of control the company has over the quality of life items. I missed the George and John days, but I recall the days before King Tutt and his MiniMe (SH). Back then we rarely did 4 days. The Senior guys did day lines. Then is was 3 days, back to back 2 days, and naps. Heck even relief lines went senior to naps. I think we erred by applying duty rigs to naps in the last contract. Seriously, one already makes double time for a nap line, does it really need to be triple? Since we got that duty rig, the naps are half as many as there use to be and half the 4 day trip are full of 5am duty in's. Serious degradation of quality of life for more pilots than those that benefit from extra $$. We must be mindful of not spending 'negotiating capital' on items that the new crew rest rules will take care of. The 30 in 7 is gone and that's huge. I see 5 day trips as fitting right in. I would prefer not to do them, but I can imagine that if they were built fairly high credit that they would become quite popular with commuters if it went 3 trips total for the month.

Where we need to focus on scheduling is flexibility. We don't have any and the company is afraid to give us any. But I honestly think we have less "captivity", we would be more willing to pick up stuff. But when forced to work oppressive 4 days with no virtual variety or ability to swap, people give up caring. If I can't move a trip a day due to low coverage, I call in sick for the whole thing. Yes, I have limited bullets for that campaign, but I have a few. I like how some carriers offer extra pay for 'overtime' pay. Add that. Add an ability to drop a trip or part of a trip. Put some common sense into it. I realize we will never all have Xmas off, but we could make some step toward more flexibility.

I think we need to position ourselves to ease the obstacles in the way with a possible merger with SkyWest. I can't help but believe that our best future is one company, one list. With that, I embrace dual qual. It is better for our customer (is it not possible that we could have added a -700 or two into the mix at IAD?), and better for schedules. I know the money and the money for our Senior guys is important. I don't have an easy answer. The SkyWest and the new LXJT 70seat agreement are interesting.

Great post! Spoke my mind on mind on almost every issue.

The bottom line is we will never be treated as equals until our name is the same as the stock ticker: SKYW--and we are managed by the St. George team. We should all be striving for that ultimate goal. Until that day comes we should be improving productivity in certain areas while gaining efficiency improvements in others. Dual qual, dual base (where appropriate), more control over pairings, and a better ability to move trips would be a good start. If open time was always 150% there would be a lot less of it (in a properly staffed situation). Other than that I defer to Puppy's post.

 

[SPDBRD747400]

Crew meals!!!