what would this trip pay?

[utahpilot]

there is some discussion here at SkyWest that bringing ALPA onboard will improve our trips or pairings by having a duty/trip rig.

if you have trip/duty rig where you work, what would it pay for this trip (an example of one of the crappiest 4 days in SLC this month)?

Saturday 10-20-2007 Report: 12:55
Flight CS Tail Orig Dest Dep Arr Pax Block Credt D/PU Dhd Turn
1. 3909 SLC LAX 13:40 14:34 01:54 01:49 00:26
2. 3988 LAX SLC 15:00 17:47 01:47 01:25 01:42
3. 3794 SLC TUS 19:29 20:17 01:48 01:41
Day Total: 05:29 04:55 Duty: 08:37
Release: 20:32/20 Hotel: LAS BRISAS HOTEL (520)746-0271 Layover: 10:23
Sunday 10-21-2007 Report: 06:55
Flight CS Tail Orig Dest Dep Arr Pax Block Credt D/PU Dhd Turn
4. 3845 TUS SLC 07:40 10:29 01:49 01:54 00:31
5. 3834 SLC YKM 11:00 11:40 01:40 01:40
Day Total: 03:29 03:45 Duty: 05:00
Release: 11:55/21 Hotel: RED LION YAKIMA CENTER (509)248-5900 Layover: 17:50
Monday 10-22-2007 Report: 05:45
Flight CS Tail Orig Dest Dep Arr Pax Block Credt D/PU Dhd Turn
6. 3821 YKM SLC 06:30 09:00 01:30 01:30 02:12
7. 3967 SLC BIL 11:12 12:30 01:18 01:12
Day Total: 02:48 03:45 Duty: 06:00
Release: 12:45/22 Hotel: CROWNE PLAZA (406)252-7400 Layover: 17:00
Tuesday 10-23-2007 Report: 05:45
Flight CS Tail Orig Dest Dep Arr Pax Block Credt D/PU Dhd Turn
8. 3856 BIL SLC 06:30 07:47 01:17 01:12
Day Total: 01:17 03:45 Duty: 02:17
Release: 08:02/23
Totals: Report 12:55/20 Release 08:02/23 Block 13:03 Credit 16:10 TAFB 67:07

 

[sweptback]

At ASA we would get paid for the block time in the current contract. However, while we have some pretty inefficient trips, we have nothing this bad. ASA management has been heavily resisting any meaningful rigs because they have scheduling very much in their favor now.

Why do you not get paid on the block time? For example, leg 2 is blocked at 1:47 but credits 1:25?

In a trip like this, the only way you're going to make money is based on a minimum day provision. Given that SkyWest is 3:45, that's probably the best you will do. Some regionals may be 4 or a bit better, so it's possible you could see 17-18 hours of pay for this trip. A duty rig wouldn't do much because of the short days, and a trip rig wouldn't do much either because of the short TAFB on the 4-day trip.

 

[ex j-41]

Just a side note: Could you please block off the hotels ?
TSA ain't gonna do crap for us, so lets just take care of eachother.

Cheers

 

[WalterSobchak]

Just a side note: Could you please block off the hotels ?
TSA ain't gonna do crap for us, so lets just take care of eachother.

Because I'm a nice guy...and incredibly bored.

Saturday 10-20-2007 Report: 12:55
Flight CS Tail Orig Dest Dep Arr Pax Block Credt D/PU Dhd Turn
1. 3909 SLC LAX 13:40 14:34 01:54 01:49 00:26
2. 3988 LAX SLC 15:00 17:47 01:47 01:25 01:42
3. 3794 SLC TUS 19:29 20:17 01:48 01:41
Day Total: 05:29 04:55 Duty: 08:37
Release: 20:32/20
Layover: 10:23

Sunday 10-21-2007 Report: 06:55
Flight CS Tail Orig Dest Dep Arr Pax Block Credt D/PU Dhd Turn
4. 3845 TUS SLC 07:40 10:29 01:49 01:54 00:31
5. 3834 SLC YKM 11:00 11:40 01:40 01:40
Day Total: 03:29 03:45 Duty: 05:00
Release: 11:55/21
Layover: 17:50

Monday 10-22-2007 Report: 05:45
Flight CS Tail Orig Dest Dep Arr Pax Block Credt D/PU Dhd Turn
6. 3821 YKM SLC 06:30 09:00 01:30 01:30 02:12
7. 3967 SLC BIL 11:12 12:30 01:18 01:12
Day Total: 02:48 03:45 Duty: 06:00
Release: 12:45/22
Layover: 17:00

Tuesday 10-23-2007 Report: 05:45
Flight CS Tail Orig Dest Dep Arr Pax Block Credt D/PU Dhd Turn
8. 3856 BIL SLC 06:30 07:47 01:17 01:12
Day Total: 01:17 03:45 Duty: 02:17
Release: 08:02/23

Totals: Report 12:55/20 Release 08:02/23 Block 13:03 Credit 16:10 TAFB 67:07

 

[CesnaCaptn]

In a trip like this, the only way you're going to make money is based on a minimum day provision. ...trip rig wouldn't do much either because of the short TAFB on the 4-day trip.

If you had a 1:3.5 which I know some majors do, the trip would pay over 19 hours. That trip rig helps out when you have a 4 day trip that is an A.M. that turns into a P.M.

At Alaska we have a few 4 day trips that have 80+ TAFB because of 24 hour layovers. A trip that starts at 8am on the first day and ends at 9pm on the last day has to pay 24 plus hours.

Having a 5 hour min. day is good, but it's a little annoying that it's averaged over the length of a trip. It's nice to know what when I'm on a 4 day trip its going to pay at least 20 hours. It drives me nuts how many two day trips we have that have 7 hours of flying one day and 3 hours of flying the next.

 

[say again]

Because I'm a nice guy...and incredibly bored.

HAHAHA, and a wise a$$!!!:laugh::beer:

 

[BoilerUP]

With a 4:1 trip rig, it would pay 16:47.

With a Min Day credit of 4 hours and a daily "greater of" structure, it would pay 17:29.

With a 3.5:1 trip rig, it would pay 19:11.

Crappiest trip? Hey, at least its commutable...

 

[SkyNation]

With a Min Day credit of 4 hours and a daily "greater of" structure, it would pay 17:29.

With a 3.5:1 trip rig, it would pay 19:11.

which regionals have these?

 

[BoilerUP]

which regionals have these?

Mesaba had a 4 hour min day in their 2004 contract; I don't know if they still have it or not.

Comair had a 3.75:1 trip rig and (if I read it correctly) a 4:20 min day in their 2001 contract but once again, I don't know if they still have it or not.

 

[dvmthwsvan]

Comair

Well actually its 3.75 TAFB for 1 hour pay

Dave

 

[CptMurf]

At Mesaba, this trip would pay 17:29. 4 hour min day and block or better (to the minute) on a per leg basis.

The hourly rates may not be great, but the work rules are better than most regionals and some majors.

 

[CptMurf]

Comair and pre concessionary Air Wisconsin contract were some of the first for rigs at a regional. Solely from memory (which means it is probably bad info and may not be true now) their's are a look back average for the trip.

Something like...

4 day trip (Based on 4:20 per day/average per trip)
Day 1 5:15
Day 2 2:10
Day 3 3:20
Day 4 6:35
Total 17:20
Average Day 4:20 so no gain by the rig

XJ's 4 hour min day would be worth 2:30 more because it is not averaged by the trip.

 

[Magneto]

Why do you not get paid on the block time? For example, leg 2 is blocked at 1:47 but credits 1:25?

We get paid block or better. So if we actually fly
1:47 that is what we would get paid. The problem is they overblock everything. So, the actual block time would be closer to 1:25 and thus only pay
1:25.

 

[siucavflight]

Eagle would pay you block or better.

If you fly overblock you get paid what you fly. IF you fly underblock you get paid what the scheduled block time was. so if a trip is worth two hours and you fly 1.5 hours you would get paid 2 hours, if you fly 2.5 hours you would get paid 2.5 hours.

 

[Fishpaw]

Originally Posted By Magneto
...if we actually fly
1:47 that is what we would get paid. The problem is they overblock everything. So, the actual block time would be closer to 1:25 and thus only pay
1:25.

This isn't "block or better" pay. This is just straight flight time pay. Has it always been like this at Skywest?

 

[SkyNation]

SkyWest gets actual block or scheduled credit, whichever is higher.

example:

XYZ to ABC scheduled block is 2 hours. Sched. Credit is 1:50. Actual block is 1:45. Pay is 1:50.

ABC to XYZ scheduled block is 1:50. Sched credit is 1:45. Actual block is 1:55. Pay is 1:55.

 

[Fishpaw]

Originally Posted by SkyNation
SkyWest gets actual block or scheduled credit, whichever is higher.

example:

XYZ to ABC scheduled block is 2 hours. Sched. Credit is 1:50. Actual block is 1:45. Pay is 1:50.

ABC to XYZ scheduled block is 1:50. Sched credit is 1:45. Actual block is 1:55. Pay is 1:55.

Interesting. I've never heard of that type of pay system. So United/Delta/Midwest block their schedules based on history and Skywest assigns credit to the flight based on history? Why would there be a difference? Do other airlines do this?

 

[shamrock]

SkyWest gets actual block or scheduled credit, whichever is higher.

example:

XYZ to ABC scheduled block is 2 hours. Sched. Credit is 1:50. Actual block is 1:45. Pay is 1:50.

ABC to XYZ scheduled block is 1:50. Sched credit is 1:45. Actual block is 1:55. Pay is 1:55.

So in this case what would prevent the company from taking every 2 hour "scheduled block" leg and assigning a 1.5 hour "scheduled credit" to it? They would save money every time you do the leg even a minute under the scheduled block time because, knowing that you will likely never do the leg in less than 1.5 hours, you're essentially being paid for flight time only.

 

[BoilerUP]

Is there an electronic copy (.pdf or otherwise) of the Skywest policy manual/whatever its called floating around?

would love to have one for comparison's sake to go with the other airline contracts I have.

 

[wmuflyguy]

Comair still has all the duty rigs from the pre-concession era. It actually gave me an extra 5 hours last month.