What Will Your Airline's Pay Be When Comair's Freeze Ends?

[kc81900]

SkyWest pilots are currently in negations with management for a new "contract". From what I can tell management is proposing a 1% pay raise for the pilot group. What length of time the new "contract" will be good for and all the specifics are still unknown. Assuming the 1% pay increase is implemented and the "contract" goes through in 2007 a 7 year, 50-99 seat captain at SkyWest will make approximately $70.04/hr

Here is a perfect example of what is wrong in this industry. 50 - 99 seat pay rates $70.24. How can you agree to fly 70 - 99 seats for subpar 50 seat rates. Well I guess in the race to the bottom it must feel good to be one of the leaders (Skywest will never be accused of taking a back seat to Mesa)

 

[100LL... Again!]

What a load of BS. Like ANY of you really care what happens at someone else's airline.

Hypothetical scenario: Suppose Airline XYZ's pilots were to get an industry-leading contract that for whatever reason caused another pilot group to have less negotiating leverage. Granted, that is a hypothetical scenario, but just suppose.

Do you really think that anyone at airline A would give up compensation for the "good of the profession". Hah!

Phrases like "raising the bar", "taking one for the team" and "protecting the profession" are nothing but propaganda BS. We all know that in the long run it will be every man (or pilot group) for himself.

History has not given us any reason to believe otherwise. Whining about what other pilot groups get for their contracts may allow you to vent off some steam, but here's a REALLY BIG F-ING CLUE:

If they thought they could get more cash out of management, they woulda tried to get it - for their own sakes. And selling out for more airplanes? Well, if the majority of the pilots want it, who cares?
(Note correct use of pilots not pilot's)


This profession was doomed to go down the drain due to low standards of entry and an over-emphasis on "getting what we deserve" and a VERY DEFINITE underemphasis on deserving what we get.

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

And this is what Comair would be getting in 2007, if these concessions are NOT passed: $78.01

$78.01 vs. $70.23 = a 10% PAYCUT (10% of pay that will NEVER be regained, only 2% will be gotten back in 2008)

In my version of the contract, a 7-yr 50 Captain would be making $75.66, not $78.01.

But remember, the pay tables are not changing, just where are pilot falls on them.

[font=TimesNewRoman,Bold]Captain CRJ 50 / 44 / 40 [/font]
[font=TimesNewRoman,Bold][/font][font=Arial,Bold]YOS 6/22/01 6/22/02 6/22/03 6/22/04 6/22/05[/font]
[font=Arial,Bold]1 [/font][font=Arial,Bold][/font]$54.40 $56.03 $57.99 $60.31 $63.02
[font=Arial,Bold]2 [/font]$56.09 $57.77 $59.79 $62.18 $64.98
[font=Arial,Bold]3 [/font]$57.81 $59.54 $61.62 $64.08 $66.96
[font=Arial,Bold]4 [/font]$59.61 $61.40 $63.55 $66.09 $69.06
[font=Arial,Bold]5 [/font]$61.45 $63.29 $65.51 $68.13 $71.20

[font=Arial,Bold]6 [/font]$63.35 $65.25 $67.53 $70.23 $73.39​

[font=Arial,Bold]7 [/font]$65.31 $67.27 $69.62 $72.40 $75.66
[font=Arial,Bold]8 [/font]$67.33 $69.35 $71.78 $74.65 $78.01
[font=Arial,Bold]9 [/font]$69.41 $71.49 $73.99 $76.95 $80.41
[font=Arial,Bold]10 [/font]$71.56 $73.71 $76.29 $79.34 $82.91
[font=Arial,Bold]11 [/font]$73.77 $75.98 $78.64 $81.79 $85.47

[font=Arial,Bold]12 [/font]$76.05 $78.33 $81.07 $84.31 $88.10​

[font=Arial,Bold]13 [/font][font=Arial,Bold][/font]$78.41 $80.76 $83.59 $86.93 $90.84​

[font=Arial,Bold]14 [/font]$80.83 $83.25 $86.16 $89.61 $93.64​

[font=Arial,Bold]15 [/font]$83.33 $85.83 $88.83 $92.38 $100.00​

[font=Arial,Bold]16 [/font][font=Arial,Bold][/font]$85.83 $88.40 $91.49 $95.15 $101.75​

[font=Arial,Bold]17 [/font]$85.83 $91.05 $94.24 $98.01 $103.25​

[font=Arial,Bold]18 [/font][font=Arial,Bold][/font]$85.83 $91.05 $97.06 $101.00 $105.55​

 

[SNK]

The pay tables DO change

In my version of the contract, a 7-yr 50 Captain would be making $75.66, not $78.01.

But remember, the pay tables are not changing, just where are pilot falls on them.

Mike,

You're statement here is completely wrong!! The pay tables DO change. The 6/22/05 column of the pay tables disappear under the terms of this LOA. This is one of the biggest reasons why this whole LOA is offensive, at best. It leaves us in a weaker starting position going in to the next round of negotiations.
Again, the 6/22/05 pay table column DISAPPEARS under this LOA.

Respectfully,

SNK

 

[my-driveby]

Why are all the comparisons between 50 seat rates? Anyone who has the time should comare the 70 seat rates. Not just 7yr. Captain either. Doesn't this LOA have more to do with 70's than 50's.

 

[Bluto]

Here is a perfect example of what is wrong in this industry. 50 - 99 seat pay rates $70.24. How can you agree to fly 70 - 99 seats for subpar 50 seat rates. Well I guess in the race to the bottom it must feel good to be one of the leaders (Skywest will never be accused of taking a back seat to Mesa)

When Skywest pilots voted on this concession, it was billed as an 18-month LOA that would only apply to the 70-seaters (not the 70-99 since there was no way they would receive any during the life of the TA). There is a very close parallel to what is going on at Comair right now, except that the SkyWest agreement was much shorter-term. SkyWest pilots were promised (and received) 70-seat growth in exchange for a short-term concession. SkyWest pilots were told if they voted yes, they wouldn't be sorry, and that the company would take care of them when the 18 months was up if they "dealt the company an ace". Well, the 18-months was up as of the end of '04 and the best "offer" SkyWest pilots have heard of is a 1% raise and inclusion in a bonus program (after 2 years with the company), with no split in the 50-70 seat rates. This is still under negotiation, but sources high up suggest that a 1% raise is all SkyWest pilots will see, and that there is no chance to split the rates. Many SkyWest pilots see this as a direct contradiction to what they were told nearly 2 years ago. Of course this is frustrating.

As frustrating as this turn of events may be, the SkyWest agreement is far and away better than Mesa's. Ask any Mesa pilot. To even compare the two shows a significant lack of understanding of both company's policies. It's pathetic to me to see people accusing SkyWest of leading the "race to the bottom" while giving Comair pilots, and everyone else who has taken concessions recently a pass. Few people at SkyWest consider the 70-seat deal a success for the pilots, but the SkyWest pilot group is now having to deal with the TA they agreed to. Hopefully, a fair and beneficial agreement will be reached. Otherwise, you'll see some pretty upset SkyWest pilots.

 

[bayoubandit]

I don't know about you Bluto, but I am already seeing a whole bunch of upset and pissed off SKW pilots.

The problem with dealing an ace is that know one asked any questions to what the ace exactly was. What were we going to get in return? Growth was a given.

Mgmt. sold a great line and the majority bought it. Some knew and they voted NO. A horrible precedent has been set within SKW and will be next to impossible to break.

The past is the past, but I sure hope that lessons were learned on this one.

 

[Bluto]

I agree 100%

 

[General Lee]

Thank Gawd those SkyWest lawyers had the United agreement ready by 7am the next morning! They must have worked all through the night eating pizzas and drinking tons of coffee!



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Crossky]

I don't know about you Bluto, but I am already seeing a whole bunch of upset and pissed off SKW pilots.

The problem with dealing an ace is that know one asked any questions to what the ace exactly was. What were we going to get in return? Growth was a given.

Mgmt. sold a great line and the majority bought it. Some knew and they voted NO. A horrible precedent has been set within SKW and will be next to impossible to break.

The past is the past, but I sure hope that lessons were learned on this one.

Here you all go again, complaining about your management not making true on their promises. Respectfully, let's remember that your pilot group does not have a union, only a pilot association. Your company management can do whatever they want to. Furthermore, your pilot group voted NO last year to organize as a union. I'm sorry, your whining is going out on deaf ears.

You're still getting longevity raises right? If so then a 1% raise plus profit sharing should be a good deal in this market, especially for a non-union pilot group. Remember, you don't pay 2.5% Union dues as well, with my paycheck that's another 62 bucks a month that I don't see.

 

[bayoubandit]

Don't really know what to say Crossky without sounding like an a$$hole. I don't disagree with what you say, but it is falling on deaf ears on my side of the computer.

Some of us have been through this stuff before, but we're in the minority.

 

[Bluto]

Here you all go again, complaining about your management not making true on their promises. Respectfully, let's remember that your pilot group does not have a union, only a pilot association. Your company management can do whatever they want to. Furthermore, your pilot group voted NO last year to organize as a union. I'm sorry, your whining is going out on deaf ears.

You're still getting longevity raises right? If so then a 1% raise plus profit sharing should be a good deal in this market, especially for a non-union pilot group. Remember, you don't pay 2.5% Union dues as well, with my paycheck that's another 62 bucks a month that I don't see.

So, which is it? Are we getting a pretty good deal? Or are we weak and pathetic because we didn't vote in UPA, a completely unproven in-house union? I think I'm missing the point of your post. Would anyone from a union carrier like to tell us how often their management breaks promises? What are you getting at?

 

[Morgoth]

Unfortunately, contracts/agreements are broken, misinterpreted, and abused all the time. In both cases (union and non-union), some type of grievance process takes place. SkyWest has a history of an exemplary working relationship with its management -- up until now. Even if UPA (or ALPA, Teamsters, or whoever) were voted in, it would not end SkyWest management's ability to violate the "agreement." In the end, I think SkyWest management may be making a fatal mistake by destroying 33 years of trust and goodwill from their pilot group with this token "raise." They are on record as telling the pilots that they will take care of them, and if they go back on that promise then their word has lost every ounce of its value.

 

[SEFlyer]

Where'd you get those pay numbers from? On airlinepilotpay.com your Comair numbers are right, but Expressjet and CHQ are 68 and 67 respectively at 7 year captain pay 50 seater. Which puts them right in line with Comair after the pay freeze.

That's their pay now, not in 2007. In 2007, his numbers are accurate.