what to do about a dangerous captain

[Paradoxus]

I'm a type-rated LR-JET FO for an on-demand pax op on my first rotation with the company. The guy I'm paired up with is rather spacey in the cockpit; plauged by an almost catatonic demeanor even at times when the workload is low, not to mention when the pressure is laid on us. On top of this, he is insulting both verbally and non-verbally, creating an almost intolerable work environment.

Upon confrontation on the ground, he becomes hostile, further lording his position over me. We are no longer on speaking terms outside the airport.

My question is this: should I turn this guy in? I'm new, and the risks are enormous. I've done my best to document everything that has happened, in case I need to produce evidence in the future.

 

[ultrarunner]

Have you gone to the CP yet?

 

[Paradoxus]

Not yet...still deciding exactly what to do. Being new might remove much of the benefit of the doubt from me. I know I cannot go another rotation with this guy. If I make that request, however, my newness to the company will likely knock my credibility down a few notches--apart from the inevidable "why" and subsequent explanation I'll have to give.

This coupled with the fact I really have no desire to cause the termination of guy with a family to feed. To be honest, I wish there were another way of resolving this.

 

[xjcaptain]

I may have missed it.....What exactly did the captain do that was dangerous?

 

[ultrarunner]

I can't imagine this guys behavior is some big secret. I'm sure others have brought this to your company's attention.

 

[Peanut gallery]

Be carefull

I agree, what has the CA done that is so bad in terms of safety. Clearly the two of you have a disfunctional relationship that does not promote safety, but beyond that there is little concrete evidence other than you guys seem to have the inability to play nice/nice.
With the limited amount of data that you have provided as a CP I probably would begin to form some opinions. I probably already have an opinion about the CA because he has been there for awhile. If it is favorable then you may in fact be the problem as we move forward in the resolution.
Any conflict between two crewmembers will be viewed as failure of both individuals. In the end there is a company to run and personality issues probably will not be tolerated. As a manager, Save'em if you can otherwise cut your losses, but you can bet that as a enterprise they will move forward with the least expensive option that yields the best results.
This may be saying goodbye to the new guy on the block.

Just be carefull and attempt to seek compromise instead of conflict./

Just my .02

 

[WhiteCloud]

Not yet...still deciding exactly what to do. Being new might remove much of the benefit of the doubt from me. I know I cannot go another rotation with this guy. If I make that request, however, my newness to the company will likely knock my credibility down a few notches--apart from the inevidable "why" and subsequent explanation I'll have to give.

This coupled with the fact I really have no desire to cause the termination of guy with a family to feed. To be honest, I wish there were another way of resolving this.

What's the truth here? I'm assuming you've tried to settle this with the pilot on a personal level. If there is still a real problem with this guys flying you need to bring it to the CP's attention. Have a meeting to discuss the situation with the CP and get some advice for getting along with this guy. If the guy is a real problem they know about it already. You seem to have a lot of reasons why you're not doing what you view as the right thing. Worried about losing your job? We all have our price.

 

[Say Again Over]

You say he is dangerous, if he won't change this behavior you have no choice but to turn him in to the CP, refuse to fly with him.

 

[Kenny]

Paradoxus,

I can sympathize in a major way with you on this; I had a very similar situation. I talked to friends of mine that were in the left seat about the issues that were occurring in the cockpit and when I finally realized that the situation wasn't going to get any better I went to our pro-standards.

The bottom line is; do you feel the two of you could work together if the "Fit hits the Shan?" If not, then it would be unsafe for you to continue flying with this guy.

With my own situation it came out months later that this guy had had some major issues with his FO's and was known amongst management for being "difficult". Remember it's not so much what you say to the CP, if you decide to go to him but rather how you say it.

Good Luck.

 

[Paradoxus]

Having never experienced quite this situation before, I am still at a loss what exactly to do. I've been everything in the way of respectful with this individual; allowing him to save face on obvious screw-ups with a concerted tactfull effort just seems like the right thing to do. This morning, however, he busted our altitude and speed restriction on the Dalton departure out of KTEB in a split second, while I was running our after T/O checklist, COMPLETELY ignoring my call-outs/warnings. I have, of course, got to fill out yet another NASA report on the incident as he busted our altitude/speed resistrctions beyond what is acceptable.

I suppose the blame is equally on my shoulders, as I am required to monitor everything happening. It cannot be ignored, however, that I cannot see/prevent EVERYTHING happening when it is not my leg apart from taking the aircraft from this guy.

 

[Paradoxus]

Kenny,

Your'e absoulutely right. I dont think the situation could be handled safely is the "fit hits the shan" as you say. This guy is majorly insecure; on top of having a prone to violence when confronted about challenges. It is almost as if he feels he needs to prove himself to me by lording his station in life over my head, with countless insults and disrespectful comments added to make things difficult. I can see him going completely catatonic over a real emergency situation. I've seen such before. Maybe I do have a responsibility to take this matter to management.

 

[Guitar rocker]

Having never experienced quite this situation before, I am still at a loss what exactly to do. I've been everything in the way of respectful with this individual; allowing him to save face on obvious screw-ups with a concerted tactfull effort just seems like the right thing to do. This morning, however, he busted our altitude and speed restriction on the Dalton departure out of KTEB in a split second, while I was running our after T/O checklist, COMPLETELY ignoring my call-outs/warnings. I have, of course, got to fill out yet another NASA report on the incident as he busted our altitude/speed resistrctions beyond what is acceptable.

I suppose the blame is equally on my shoulders, as I am required to monitor everything happening. It cannot be ignored, however, that I cannot see/prevent EVERYTHING happening when it is not my leg apart from taking the aircraft from this guy.

I can sympathize with you. How long has that cptn been there??? Do other guys like flying with him??? Does he have a bad reputation???

I understand that being new isnt the easiest. If you sit on it, it could bite you too........what if something happens and you have all this information documented and the CP says, hey, why didnt you come to me with this earlier??? Then it's too late. Your stuck between a rock and a hard place, but I would ask others who fly with him and see what their perception is and if you havent confronted him, then I would at least start there as someone above mentioned............but in the end, it's CYA. If you seriously think that hes going to hurt someone, bend some metal or get you in trouble with the federales, and if he wasnt willing to hear you out, then it's time to talk to the CP. It's not worth the risk of getting into any legal trouble or worse than that. There are other corporate flying jobs out there with really cool and safe people to fly with.

 

[shamrock]

prone to violence when confronted about challenges.

countless insults and disrespectful comments added

Upon confrontation.... he becomes hostile

COMPLETELY ignoring my call-outs/warnings.

If this stuff is just half true then this guy really does seem to have a problem. Not being in the situation personally it's easier said than done to tell you to go to the CP but I'll tell you anyway. Go to the CP. There's some total A-holes where I work who I can't stand personally but I would trust to handle an emergency. Sounds like this guy is dangerous even without interpersonal conflicts.

 

[400A]

Let me give you an example.

Just days before the Brunos Beechjet slammed into the hills in Rome Ga. killing all aboard because they were scud running, the first officer told his friends "I have to get another job before this guy kills me." He told the captain the mountain was there multiple times.

Are you going to be next? Your life and income are just as important as his. If you let him kill you, no body has any income.

If it is a personality issue, deal with it. If he is truly dangerous, you have to deal with that too.

 

[WhiteCloud]

There's some total A-holes where I work who I can't stand personally but I would trust to handle an emergency. Sounds like this guy is dangerous even without interpersonal conflicts.

Excellent point. When you go to the CP be sure you're doing everything you can to work professionally with this guy. In this business part of safety is working well with your crewmembers. Tension in the cockpit just isn't safe. Ask for advice from the CP on how to get along with this guy. I'd probably arrange to fly a trip or two with the guy to "keep myself current" and to see what's going on in the cockpit first hand. If it's personal maybe the guy has a beef with you too. Something a beer or three after work could solve?

 

[Guitar rocker]

Excellent point. When you go to the CP be sure you're doing everything you can to work professionally with this guy. In this business part of safety is working well with your crewmembers. Tension in the cockpit just isn't safe. Ask for advice from the CP on how to get along with this guy. I'd probably arrange to fly a trip or two with the guy to "keep myself current" and to see what's going on in the cockpit first hand. If it's personal maybe the guy has a beef with you too. Something a beer or three after work could solve?

Hate to say it, but I think at this point we are past what a "beer or 3" can do here. If you have already chatted with the captain and he's still acting the same way and doing things that are unsafe, you just dont have any other choice but to mention it to the higher ups. It's your resoponsibility to do so at this point.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Without us being there in the cockpit, only you and those who have flown with him know how 'dangerous' the guy is. If it's just a matter of not getting along, or not seeing eye to eye, then the dangerous part can be controlled by you and how you handle the situation and/or personality conflict. If the danger is in the way the guy flies, then you need to ask yourself if sticking it out is worth getting in a wreck and dying.

If you haven't already, take a look at the Aftermath section of the May 2006 FLYING magazine...they rehash the B-52 crash back in 94 caused by a clearly out of control senior Air Force officer. If that is your situation, my low-time advice is...don't be the guy in the right seat.

 

[bubbers44]

I had the same problem. He was the chief pilot so going there was not an option. I decided to talk to the VP in charge of the flight department, he talked to the other pilots and the CP was put on probation for a month. I thought I would lose my job earlier when I took the jet away from him when he tried to land long on a short runway in a thunderstorm one night. I thought I would get fired but didn't. He was later fired doing unsafe flights with another pilot. You can't let him kill you because he is the captain. Jobs are easier to find then body parts.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Sorry to hear of your situation.

Best advice seems to be that you need to have a talk with your CP and have him ride with this guy.

Don't put yourself in an uncomfortable position. If you feel overwhelmed and unsafe riding with this guy, stay away. As long as you have a concrete explantion for any future employment queries, you should be ok.

 

[Way2Broke]

:laugh: Maverick was "dangerous" and he got along just fine. So what is your point. Just kidding. Seriously though, if you don't like the guy do what any mature adult would do, call him names behind his back.

 

[sluminginpit]

If there is a problem address it with him first! But just a quick observation. You started your post by telling us your type rated in the airplane, then you explained that "he" busted your altitude and airspeed on a departure? Your both flying the departure right?

If this was your first trip for this company with this guy, relax! Fly another trip with him and then decide. Maybe he had an issue at home or with his finances? Not that this makes it right, but you could be overreacting.

You won't always like the guys you fly with but so what, your not there to make friends, your there to pilot the plane. Maybe you need to ask your self if you came on to strong with the " Im type rated in this plane" attitude and offended him into acting "lordy" to you. If after your next trip it goes bad, then talk with other pilots about their flights with him. Make sure there is a general concesus that he is dangerous before proceeding or you may find yourself unemployed. Good Luck

By the way if every a-hole, ego maniac, jerk was dangerous and should be fired, there would be no one left to fly for the airlines !

 

[TimsKeeper]

Hopefully it'll all work out. Keep in mind he may have documented "notes" on you too (whether true or not really won't be the issue).......so working it out is an option you should strongly consider.

Good Luck

 

[TurboS7]

He is just an old cragy Lear captain, lighten up, you can fart in the flight deck, and do a lot of things you can't with the other types. If you can't handle it leave and go get a single pilot job....

 

[400A]

He is just an old cragy Lear captain, lighten up, you can fart in the flight deck, and do a lot of things you can't with the other types. If you can't handle it leave and go get a single pilot job....

Yeah, dont do anything about it.............Let him kill someone else.

 

[smellthejeta]

If the guy's truly an a*hole (I don't doubt it), then it's no secret. However, if it's no secret and he still has a job, he'll still have a job after you say your peace.

If the guy is truly a safety hazard, quit. No job is worth certificate action or your physical well being, especially if you keep telling yourself you should know better.

From your description of your job, I presume you're sacrificing a paycheck in exchange for jet time? FO or CA's at those types of jobs don't stick around for very long. Depending on the area you live in, there's probably other jobs around.