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What the F@!&* is happening with Arbitration

dime line

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So this union who has now 10 years of experience with Ricci honestly thought he'd stop at a politely declined invitation to a bribery vacation?
it was our 1st contract and 4 years has been with the purchase of flexjet and those shenanigans


Please. It just means he got craftier and sneakier.
Yes, yes it does



****ing ridiculous. Flexjet pilots were sent down the river to a winless battle so Options pilots could be brought to parity and Red Label brought back to a seniority based system where once again only Options pilots would truly benefit. I actually don't even have a problem with the premise. The problem is I get the sinking feeling we didn't even accomplish that. I'll wait and see.

so now you flex pilots need to realize there are 2 groups here at OneSky, Red Label (made up of seniority jumpers, and kiss asses) and the rest getting f..ked, I'm a FLOPS pilot in the same boat as you in this mess, and I chose no to jump seniority from the FLOPS side
......
 
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shanes123

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I'm with MMP. And as far as seniority goes it sounds like it don't mean a FING thing at this point. There's a G650 left seat waiting for # 560 all you have to do is be a worthless POS like the rest of them.
 
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Imissmypilot

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Just a couple of things. First off, I would expect the award within a few days, maybe as few as 2. Secondly, after the anger has subsided, and there will be anger. I would hope that after a thorough review of all the documents and information provided by both sides. Those who have steadfastly supported management rather than the majority of their fellow pilots and union leadership, hopefully they will finally see the light and understand where and who that anger should be focused.

So did you know about the cabo trip when you posted this? Were you in the loop or just thrown to the wolves on the Options First agenda unaware of the full script?

Let's talk about agenda. Just so we are clear, I am angry with fellow pilots that did everything they could to enable management in their schemes. FW (yes I'm unfortunately feeding the narcissism) and his cohorts at the porn lounge are at the top of the list. I am further appalled by the predicted defense these same pilots will make for such an egregious and corrupt tactic on the part of Kenn Ricci to unfairly stack the deck. Appalled but not surprised. I can't wait to see what the "morally and religiously superior" of their ilk will come up with to equivocate the sliminess.

Yes, the blame does lie squarely on the shoulders of anyone with a me first or me only agenda. Ricci's schemes rely on it. So JM what I'm trying to figure out is whether or not we are so naive he ended up swindling our own leadership into the scheme or if they went willingly?

Let's be honest so we can correct it. There's no shame in losing to a first rate con artist. The shame lies in allowing it to continue. I've gotten more than a few PMs agreeing.

Do I need to state again how floored I am by the cabo admission by our union president? That is some balls of steel on Ricci's part. I'm still trying to wrap my head around how anyone can defend his actions (the invitation alone was illegal). I'm also trying to figure out why we're not in front of Judge Gwin right ****ing now. I don't even need to see the MCBA to know how slanted toward the company it will be based on the fact alone Fishgold didn't shut it down and inform the union he was filing a coc order.

This is lunacy.
 
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exagony

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This is what happens when the pilot group are too afraid to stand up for themselves. This POS would never have occurred at NetJets. Anyone pissed off and didn't help in the cause can look in the mirror to see who is to blame. I know the union leadership and volunteers burned many many hours of their personal time trying to get the best contract they could. Thank you to all the union leadership for all their hard work. I know you worked hard to get us a great contract - unfortunately a anti-union arbitrator screwed us over.
 
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Imissmypilot

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My first thoughts on thumbing through the mcba (I'll start a new thread for discussion) is that this looks like a huge win for the Flops team. However I am flummoxed by the huge pay disparity between the fixed schedules and the PBS. When calculated the daily rates are hundred or more apart. That makes no sense. I was hoping to transition to a fixed and there is no way in hell I'd do that now. It's just one more lopsided advantage to the Red Label crews. Know your schedule months in advance, get all holidays off and still make $200 more a day than me.
 

Club ORD FO

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challenger 300 captains will get red label pay when they fly on a red label airplane. Plus a three percent raise in January (why only a raise in that one fleet?). Everyone gets a one time bonus in January. otherwise pay looks the same?
 

Imissmypilot

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challenger 300 captains will get red label pay when they fly on a red label airplane. Plus a three percent raise in January (why only a raise in that one fleet?). Everyone gets a one time bonus in January. otherwise pay looks the same?

I think it's important to track the differences between what the union presented to us regarding their proposals and this mcba.

Wow, the company must have completly wanted to **** the non red label / red label eligible flexers.
 

1folinepilot

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Looks like the Union leadership received the respect and support that it gave the pilots. We overwhelmingly voted out the mighty Praetorian and his crew because they alienated and blackballed anybody who didn't play ball with them. The only reason the Union received any continued support for its new leadership was because MGT was worse. Going forward its time for the Union leadership and the 20 fanatics to take the high road and welcome the Flex crews to our Union and be productive instead of obstructive
 

el raton

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Hmmm. There are only 51 registered members. What is that? About 10 percent of the whole pilot group? That shows what weak support PD really has.
It’s up to 71 now. Slow growth but still growing. Voice your opinion. Engage PD one on one. Why not?
 

GlorifiedCabbie

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It’s up to 71 now. Slow growth but still growing. Voice your opinion. Engage PD one on one. Why not?
Why? PD is nothing more than a puppet. He is not capable of independent thought. I won't waste my time. Time that I will never get back.
 

Imissmypilot

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It’s up to 71 now. Slow growth but still growing. Voice your opinion. Engage PD one on one. Why not?

The porn lounge is full of misrepresentations. But what do you expect from a guy who was willing to lie under oath in an attempt to keep his gravy train running.

The latest? The assertions that the union tried to completely eliminate Red Label. I wish they had. I spoke with numerous union leadership and I can tell you 100% they never agreed with me on trying to eliminate it.

They simply argued it was a matter for Section 6, not the MCBA. My understanding is they argued to the Arbitrator to give seniority based bypass pay until it could be hammered out and they gave no other stipulations regarding marketing etc...

How could anyone on Red Label have a problem with that?

FW is a lying, self glorifying scumbag who is seeking really just to elevate himself to the lofty heights his ego thinks he deserves. PD is just a gullible idiot who thinks he can be the #1 sycophant. None of these guys, including you El Raton as much as I like you, had ever done a thing to help out your fellow pilots but now, now you are expending all sorts of energy, time and money to do Uncle's bidding and **** everything up for Section 6? Think of how much further we'd be if you did that with the union that is already in place?

I understand not wanting to get involved - time, resources, reputation. But apparently that's a hurdle several of you have surpassed. So as a bystander (like 90%) I am actually even more pissed at the foolishness of this endeavor. This drive will only hurt us and delay things further.

BTW regarding the intrigue on voting for current leadership as a dues paying member I got plenty of advance notice the election was taking place in addition to the offer to place my name in the ring. They have been telling Flex pilots to join for almost 2 years but now there's a big conspiracy that their failure - FAILURE - to do what is right has resulted in a lack of opportunity to be elected? GIVE ME A ****ING BREAK. Btw the arbitrators ruling, typed up by JW himself was dated 10/10. How could the union possibly use that release date to their advantage?

Try critical thinking for a change. You guys are making the problem worse not better and uncle loves you for it. Think about why that might be. Idiots.
 

doh

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It’s up to 71 now. Slow growth but still growing. Voice your opinion. Engage PD one on one. Why not?
Why not? Why? FW will protect the anonymity of those who march in jack booted lockstep with his agenda, but he will not protect the anonymity of anyone who dissents. In fact, management will have your login before your first post if you aren’t one of FW’s butt boys. He is pure evil.
 

Imissmypilot

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Why not? Why? FW will protect the anonymity of those who march in jack booted lockstep with his agenda, but he will not protect the anonymity of anyone who dissents. In fact, management will have your login before your first post if you aren’t one of FW’s butt boys. He is pure evil.

DOH I cannot stress enough how much of a pot stirring liar FW is. I think the rest are misguided or their experience colors perception etc... but FW is a proven liar. He passes off his blatant and purposeful misrepresentations as folksy "I'm not the final authority" or "check it out for yourself" or "I need to correct the record (with another lie)" etc...

What you have said is true. I remember back in the early days of the campaign and FW signed up to do the Ricci video how all of the leadership, including you, were defending him. I knew eventually you'd see what I was talking about but better late than never. All FW has ever been in the game for was FW. It pains me to see these guys like El Raton pledge their allegiance to his cause because they too will get burned.

Say what you will for the Flex guys who have been in leadership positions (and sorry there is plenty to say in some areas) but no one can say they are anything less than honest or transparent. That is the number one quality needed in a union made up of fellow pilots. The problem a lot of Flexers are having right now is hearing how the Flops leadership did not include them in the decision process of how much to let out to the pilots. They always play it too close to the vest for what Flexers need to know. That is the only place FW is winning. While it's false information it's at least something. And leadership better pay attention: Flexers like, and are used to, lots of information and transparency. The union's lack of it since the campaign was an interesting and regretful choice.

Their entire tone changed post election but that tone is what won them the election. Sure it was close but I can guarantee you if it was the tone that came out over the past year it would have been a big loss. If FW is winning any support outside of his lies it's because he is mirroring the techniques the POC used to win. Pay attention to that DOH. That plus his willingness to lie makes him a threat.

Once again I cannot reiterate what a supreme **** up it was to not inform the masses of Ricci's corrupt Cabo invitation or be more transparent regarding their Red Label philosophies. In a way I feel like part of my contribution here was to shine a light on some of the information but apparently I didn't even know half of what we needed to know and I don't know how much good came out of it.

FW has proven he is willing to cheat, lie, steal and stab friends in the back. I hate saying I told you so, but I told you so. And I guarantee sooner or later, just like you did DOH, these guys who are aiding and abetting his rise to authority, will get burned. Never ever ever trust a leader who will only advance positions that elevate himself and avoid the ones that don't.

The whole SLI issue is proof positive to me that anyone who uses that as their only argument to not support our PILOT'S union is a a self seeker incapable of seeing the forest through the trees. It's a nothing burger they've been conned into thinking is important while Ricci and his henchmen are stealing our careers out the back door.
 

doh

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I completely agree! FW is a total POS.
 
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