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What now for Mesaba?

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No different than these...

I never claimed anyone from ASA had not gloated did I?

Except these are not XJ guys. Interesting they both use the "safe' word.

Maybe they shouldn't have expressed their relief on a forum thread, but don't globally bash a pilot group for a few individual comments.

There always going to be knuckleheads as I pointed out. To come out and claim no one from your company is gloating is asinine at best. However, expressing relief (for now) doesn't come close to gloating. Being thankful none of your fellow employees will walking the streets is another thing entirely. How are the quotes you dug up the exception of ohplease gloating? ASA was on the verge of furloughing and Mesaba has been hiring like mad and these guys are relieved? Come on!

For the record, point out where I bashed an entire pilot group with the exception of Go Jet. I only pointed there have guys doing the same thing you claimed to have no knowledge of.
 
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You don't know who is the "cheapest." That's the thing. ASA may have submitted the lowest bid to fly those aircraft, in which case they may make the smallest margin or loss to fly them. What the pilots take home and what the company charges to fly the aircraft are independent.

...skyw inc. would not have submitted a bid if they weren't going to make money. Not how they operate.
 
No different than these...



Except these are not XJ guys. Interesting they both use the "safe' word.

No gloating. In tough times you have to look out for you and yours. To wipe your brow and have a false since of security when you get good news is inevitable. Maybe they shouldn't have expressed their relief on a forum thread, but don't globally bash a pilot group for a few individual comments.

Haha why would I gloat about ASA getting 900s when I fly for XJT? There is going to be gloating by any airline employess when there is good news, it doesn't make anyone a bad person.
 
My point was... gloating would entail saying "my airline got the airplanes because they are better than yours." I never heard that. I saw some people saying that others were not hired because they did not meet our current standards, or score better than the other applicants. And some exclaiming their joy that there may be an end to their reserve stint. But no gloating.

The current XJ guys could less about not receiving those airframes (the potential newhires are a different story). The internal XJ boards have no finger pointing, complaining or whining. In fact, there is more time wasted on our uniform policy (peer pressure to stay professional) than whether we get these airframes or not.

I am glad that ASA got them (for now) if it keeps them from furloughing. But since there is an overall net loss, it maybe a shortlived stay of execution. Unless attrition picks up (no lining up that way so far), or they can get contracts with other carriers for those birds (which would be hard fought right now) they will be in the same situation in 2010.

Seems to me, that every airline that has been awarded those aircraft have had someone on here that showed their enthusiasm for the award.
 
Alright here is how the game works. Delta knows that ASA has rights to most of the flying in ATL as per their agreement when Skywest bought them from Delta (Am I wrong on this? Is it true its 80% of the regional flying out of ATL?). They want to cut crj 200 flying where it will not cost them in house (parking planes which they are paying for loses them cash, parking other companies planes does not) here is the game, tell Mesaba they are getting crj 900's, putting ASA in a position to now have to negotiate to get them even though they are infringing upon their contract rights. Delta wants to grow Mesaba for a number of reasons, growth there makes sense since they invested millions on Ground training equipment, facilities, and sims. They also know and told their shareholders that growing in house makes more money and XJ has already been through the wringer to force by use of bankruptcy to get their cost structure down. So Now ASA has to deal with Delta, and has to agree to park 20 of their CRJ 200's for 10 900's. Keeping 5 at XJ to grow westward in house. Delta still has 35 options with Bombardier, who do you think will get those? XJ has a bid in and management has a positive outlook on our competitive bid on those planes. But who knows? Big Delta does. Delta also is doing what NWA did to more than 50 of their smaller outstations. They are making them "outsourced" to non-delta workers. Management is also pretty positive of their big to get 50 of these cities. This is just something I have put together from sources who were at Management seminars and common knowledge of our system. You make up your own mind
 
Alright here is how the game works. Delta knows that ASA has rights to most of the flying in ATL as per their agreement when Skywest bought them from Delta (Am I wrong on this? Is it true its 80% of the regional flying out of ATL?). They want to cut crj 200 flying where it will not cost them in house (parking planes which they are paying for loses them cash, parking other companies planes does not) here is the game, tell Mesaba they are getting crj 900's, putting ASA in a position to now have to negotiate to get them even though they are infringing upon their contract rights. Delta wants to grow Mesaba for a number of reasons, growth there makes sense since they invested millions on Ground training equipment, facilities, and sims. They also know and told their shareholders that growing in house makes more money and XJ has already been through the wringer to force by use of bankruptcy to get their cost structure down. So Now ASA has to deal with Delta, and has to agree to park 20 of their CRJ 200's for 10 900's. Keeping 5 at XJ to grow westward in house. Delta still has 35 options with Bombardier, who do you think will get those? XJ has a bid in and management has a positive outlook on our competitive bid on those planes. But who knows? Big Delta does. Delta also is doing what NWA did to more than 50 of their smaller outstations. They are making them "outsourced" to non-delta workers. Management is also pretty positive of their big to get 50 of these cities. This is just something I have put together from sources who were at Management seminars and common knowledge of our system. You make up your own mind

Great post bro. I just hope you're right. Cuz if you ain't I might just become a Pararescuer in the Air Force special forces. Or The Army's! LOL. But seriously, that's good job security. Especially since I speak fluent spanish, I can go to colombia and fight drug lords. LOL.
But in all seriousness I hope everything works out everywhere for everyone.
 
Alright here is how the game works. Delta knows that ASA has rights to most of the flying in ATL as per their agreement when Skywest bought them from Delta (Am I wrong on this? Is it true its 80% of the regional flying out of ATL?). They want to cut crj 200 flying where it will not cost them in house (parking planes which they are paying for loses them cash, parking other companies planes does not) here is the game, tell Mesaba they are getting crj 900's, putting ASA in a position to now have to negotiate to get them even though they are infringing upon their contract rights. Delta wants to grow Mesaba for a number of reasons, growth there makes sense since they invested millions on Ground training equipment, facilities, and sims. They also know and told their shareholders that growing in house makes more money and XJ has already been through the wringer to force by use of bankruptcy to get their cost structure down. So Now ASA has to deal with Delta, and has to agree to park 20 of their CRJ 200's for 10 900's. Keeping 5 at XJ to grow westward in house. Delta still has 35 options with Bombardier, who do you think will get those? XJ has a bid in and management has a positive outlook on our competitive bid on those planes. But who knows? Big Delta does. Delta also is doing what NWA did to more than 50 of their smaller outstations. They are making them "outsourced" to non-delta workers. Management is also pretty positive of their big to get 50 of these cities. This is just something I have put together from sources who were at Management seminars and common knowledge of our system. You make up your own mind

I think the biggest mistake that most pilots make is they think in the "here and now." Look at all the doom and gloomers at ASA over the last 6 months? There's so much going on behind the scenes we are not, or ever will be aware of. 2010 is a LOOOOOOOONGGGGGG way away. So many things will happen, but one of them is the economy will be much much much much more sound. The economy, in 2010 will most likely be growing creating a need for more airplanes. Who knows? There's opportunity out there, but one thing I think you will see is ASA flying for another Carrier by then. So, while those 50's may or may not be flying for Delta, they most likely will be flying for another Codeshare.

Trojan
 
2010 is a LOOOOOOOONGGGGGG way away. So many things will happen, but one of them is the economy will be much much much much more sound. The economy, in 2010 will most likely be growing creating a need for more airplanes.

Trojan

I'm not a pessimist but I will believe it when I see it. Nonetheless, Cheers to you for being a glass 1/2 full type of guy !! I hope you are correct my friend.
 
Originally Posted by xjhawk
They want to cut crj 200 flying where it will not cost them in house (parking planes which they are paying for loses them cash, parking other companies planes does not)

Delta still owns 30 of ASA's RJs and leases them to ASA. If 20 RJs are getting parked it will be those.
 
I'm not a pessimist but I will believe it when I see it. Nonetheless, Cheers to you for being a glass 1/2 full type of guy !! I hope you are correct my friend.

Thanks, me too. So far, the doom and gloomers have been wrong, but are hanging on to that "20 more airplanes leaving the property in 2010." The economy, most likely will start recovering mid 2009. Investors are starting to come back with great value. If housing stops going any lower (which is anyones guess, but experts are predicting mid 2009), people will start spending again and quit locking their cash in the mattresses! Trends are funny. You don't start buying a stock as it goes higher....You want to sell it then.....We are currently in arguably the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression, it doesn't always stay that way....Things change, they don't ALWAYS suck. I'm hoping we're at the end of that "sucking" part!

Trojan
 

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