What is wrong with this picture???

[Stifler's Mom]

AeroDate is pretty straight forward when there are no deferrals on your AC and the weather is nice. It's when your APU is deferred, and the airport is contaminated with Level 2 slush that makes you have to work harder at all the "gotchas".

Good luck with that 25 minute turn...the clock is ticking.

 

[Grey Ghost]

What do you mean "lucky enough to fly the 145"? I thought that thing was completely underpowered? Does'nt it climb out at like .56????

 

[Aviation Geek]

Um, not to rain on anybody's parade, but unpaid study is a part of many careers. Lawyers, doctors, nurses, teachers, social workers and others have to take a certain amount of "training" on an annual basis in order to maintain certain professional credentials. It is part of their salary.

I know people in all these fields and they do not get any extra pay for the weekend(s) they have to take to maintain these credentials. In fact, many of them (like lawyer and doctors) have to actually take time off from the billable side of their work to take these classes. In essence, they have fewer working hours to make money in order to stay current. Usually they have to pay to take these courses, pay for their travel and pay for their accommodations and meals.

The only reason I bring this up is that pilots often compare themselves to others in the professional classes (given the study, cost of education, hours of training, responsibility for assets/lives we all have). The argument that some additional study should be compensated may fall on deaf ears during a contract negotiation.

 

[zasca]

Just as you said, "It is part of their salary". If my salary was 250k, like that doctor, I wouldn't mind at all. But we are mostly paid by the HOUR... Oh and don't forget all the downtime periods making per diem pay. We get for paid recurrent, why not this???

 

[zasca]

Oh, but you wouldn't know about that yet would you Avgeek?

 

[Guitar Guy]

Um, not to rain on anybody's parade, but unpaid study is a part of many careers. Lawyers, doctors, nurses, teachers, social workers and others...

The pilot on this thread are, for the most part, professional pilots. We typically get paid to attend company recurrent and simulator/aircraft recurrent training. Doctors, lawyers, teachers - different work group or industry if you prefer. It's like comparing apples to golf balls.

In fact, many of them (like lawyer and doctors) have to actually take time off from the billable side of their work to take these classes. In essence, they have fewer working hours to make money in order to stay current. Usually they have to pay to take these courses, pay for their travel and pay for their accommodations and meals.

Go back and talk to some of your friends in various professions that have continuing education requirements. You'll find that some companies/firms/employers allow time off for this sort of training and in some cases, pay for it. Also, with regards to assertion about lawyers and "billable hours", you'll also find that they can bill hours outside of the normal 9-5/Mon-Fri work week. So that "lost time" for training can be made back easily if desired.

 

[nimtz]

Um, not to rain on anybody's parade, but unpaid study is a part of many careers. Lawyers, doctors, nurses, teachers, social workers and others have to take a certain amount of "training" on an annual basis in order to maintain certain professional credentials. It is part of their salary.

I know people in all these fields and they do not get any extra pay for the weekend(s) they have to take to maintain these credentials. In fact, many of them (like lawyer and doctors) have to actually take time off from the billable side of their work to take these classes. In essence, they have fewer working hours to make money in order to stay current. Usually they have to pay to take these courses, pay for their travel and pay for their accommodations and meals.

The only reason I bring this up is that pilots often compare themselves to others in the professional classes (given the study, cost of education, hours of training, responsibility for assets/lives we all have). The argument that some additional study should be compensated may fall on deaf ears during a contract negotiation.

This sounds like self study for a specific COMPANY related issue that compares little with your example. Studying how your COMPANY wants perf data should be done on their dime. I have done a @ssload of self study for this career on my own time in order to further myself like a MD or lawyer. Try reading HANDLING THE BIG JETS in your free time and then tell me I don't compare to an accountant studying Sabers-Oaxley. You allow the company to not pay you for self study like this, all the sudden you are bombarded with required training modules.

 

[Axel]

The "pay for home study" was arbitrated and lost. Copied from another website:

Recurrent requires a specific number of training hours mandated by the FAA. RAH has permission from the FAA to substitute "home study" for classroom time to meet that requirement. We are given "home study credit" to meet the minimum time requirements

For all this other stuff (AeroData, LAHSO), the FAA requires training and documentation that that the training has been conducted, but does not specify any minimum amount of time. Since there is no minimum time specified by the FAA, there is no "credit" assigned and therefore, according to the arbitrator, no requirement for the company to pay us.

Quote: 3.M. Training Pay

2. If the company elects to use any method of training such as “home
study” to comply with FAA requirements, a pilot will be paid and
credited with one (1) hour of flight pay for every two (2) hours of
FAA-approved training credit earned in home study.

The timing of the switch to AeroData on the 145 side (2 weeks after the arbitration decision) is not a coincidence. Please keep this nickel and dime BS in mind next time you are asked a favor or your cellphone rings.

 

[doh]

You really should respond to this by just doing your job, not going the extra mile. Stop using your cell for company business on the road. Stop helping out when some one below the wing forgets something. It really wil get their attention.

 

[DrewBlows]

That sucks. I hope you guys sure up the language in your next contract, you deserve it.

At Comair we had differences training when they brought the -900 on property; it consisted of limitations and Aerodata. Every -700 pilot went to a day of ground school and was paid 4 hours. The company tried to do a self study when it completely changed the non-precision approach procedures. After some prodding from our friendly union representatives the training was incorporated in recurrent ground and simulator training, a much safer option in my opinion. As an aside, we didn't get any additional pay in this case but it was the safe thing to do.