What is the Purpose of Airline Pilot Unions?

[CopilotDoug]

However, the article clearly shows not why ALPA is the best union, but why all pilots under one union is best....

The article said it all...job security. Now, a reason why ALPA is not the one to be under: Comair and the transferring of aircraft to Mesaba.

Another downside? Being held accountable to the AFL-CIO. Hopkins points out that " If American’s pilots had remained within the embrace of ALPA and the AFL-CIO, public perception of them might be more favorable." Why? Because ALPA would have taken the position of non-flying workers into consideration in the first place, and quelled any attempts to strike.

YMMV

 

[Turtle21]

Naw, I don't think the APA is that great of a union becuase left ALPA over ego's. and they won't come back to ALPA for ego's.

One could argue that by not being ALPA that the APA could do great things....

if so..... what? sick out fine? Treating TWA pilots like second class citizens? The B scale?

Again, I am not saying that ALPA is great, just saying that AMR pilots not being part of one union give management an advantage...

Yeah, TWA pilots know all about the ALAP advantage. Too bad APA didn't accept the sacrifice and pay homage. They should have promised someone in APA that they could be president of ALPA if they brought them back into the fold.

I'll buy you a beer if ALPA puts that story in "Flying the Line". Whats to hide?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I'll buy you a beer if ALPA puts that story in "Flying the Line". Whats to hide?

I don't think that will be an issue... do you?


With copy of Vol II in hand turn to page XII of the Preface.

Hopkins, the books' author writes

JJ O'Donnell [then ALPA's president] asked me to write another history commemorating the unions 50th anniversary. With the understanding that I would give ALPA its history "warts and all," I agreed.

The result was Flying the Line; the First Half Century of the Airline Pilots Association, published in 1982. My interpretation of ALPA's history was not censored. I work for Western Illionis University specifically and for an abstraction called history" generally. Although frankly nervous about the book, O'Donnell understood that prettified "court history" praising the King (so to speak) would be worthless. If pilots were to derive insight from my book, it had to be free to go wherever truth took it.
​

Hopkins placed his academic career on writing the truth and not being a chump.




You can read about how pilots showed up for work, only to be met by an armed guard who escorted them to a company official. This company official handed the pilot both a resignation and an employment application....at a lower wage! (Vol I, chapter 6, page 48)

Coming to work nowadays isn't so bad.


Need more? Read 'When the Airlines Went to War' In this book you will read how Air Line Pilots disregarded thier labor contracts during WWII to 'transport the army and navy' and how the airlines trained Navigators, Pilots and mechanics by the thousands. The required rapid mobilzation of America's Air Power would have never happened if it wasn't for the US Airlines.

You'll earn a new respect for Airports like LGA and DCA, commonly refered to as sh1tholes by the ignorant. LGA and DCA have more history, culture and character than most of us....

Pride in being an Air Line Pilot is not popular right now, but you'll find it in these books...

 

[Turtle21]

.. escorted them to a company official. This company official handed the pilot both a resignation and an employment application....at a lower wage! ...

No one is denying that ALPA had relevance and met the challenges for a couple decades at the beginning, but what have they done in the last two or three decades.

ALPA discovered the escort business pays better. Any "union" that collects dues from multiple seniority lists with competing interests is a group of hucksters.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

No one is denying that ALPA had relevance and met the challenges for a couple decades at the beginning, but what have they done in the last two or three decades.

What do you suggest then? USAPA?

ALPA discovered the escort business pays better. Any "union" that collects dues from multiple seniority lists with competing interests is a group of hucksters.

Again what do you suggest? Sure it sounds good to slam ALPA for representing multiple carriers, but not is worse, unless you can provide a logical alternative...

 

[CopilotDoug]

No one is denying that ALPA had relevance and met the challenges for a couple decades at the beginning, but what have they done in the last two or three decades.

What's wrong with resting on laurels achieved over 60 years ago?

Armed guards are still show up today at Skywest, don't they?

 

[Turtle21]

Again what do you suggest? ..

Each poster should be allowed no more than one post for every hour of actual aircraft flight time. ALPA slurping counts as two posts.:laugh:

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Each poster should be allowed no more than one post for every hour of actual aircraft flight time. ALPA slurping counts as two posts.:laugh:

Agreed... quite complex of an issue.... no easy answers...

 

[Turtle21]

Agreed... quite complex of an issue.... no easy answers...

Slurping isn't the answer. But I have to say I am grateful to Prater. If it wasn't for him I'ld still be paying dues to ALPA.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I didn't say it was....

 

[Turtle21]

no easy answers...

If pilots refused to join any union that has more than one seniority list there might be a few people smart enough to come up with an answer. Why join a union that fosters divided loyalties?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If pilots refused to join any union that has more than one seniority list there might be a few people smart enough to come up with an answer. Why join a union that fosters divided loyalties?

like I said no easy answers.....

tell us how your "if" would pragmatically work...

 

[cynic]

Ohhh man..... without unions pilots might get laid off willy-nilly, make ridiculous wages like 25K a year to start and end up working all kinds of barely legal schedules without adequate rest and not time at home.

Can you image that?

Due pay your dues because remember, those unions are looking out for you!

 

[Guppiedriver]

Why join a union that fosters divided loyalties?

This is the quandary that 1700 former AWA pilots face today.

 

[CopilotDoug]

This is the quandary that 1700 former AWA pilots face today.

Is USAPA finished evolving as a Union?