What is RNP-5 and RNP-10?

lumax

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I've flown RNP approaches but I am not familiar with these terms. From what I could find on the web, RNP-5 and RNP-10 are used for en-route separation on oceanic routes.
Can anyone shed more light on this?
Do you have a good source for more info?

Thanks
 

Hair-on-Fire

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Here's more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Required_Navigation_Performance

The performance required to fly an RNP route is generally specified in nautical miles, e.g. RNP 4 which implies that the total system error will be no greater than 4 NM for 95% of the time. The RNP specification requires that if the error exceeds or is likely to exceed twice the specified value (i.e. 8NM for RNP 4) then an alert must be generated. Since the deviation is likely to exceed the alerting deviation before the error can be rectified, route spacing must be sufficient to ensure that two aircraft deviating to the alert level toward one another will remain safely separated. RNP 4 thus supports 30 NM lateral or longitudinal spacing.
 
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DrunkIrishman

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I got a CPDLC response recently when I requested a climb that went something like this, "Unable, B77W 25 miles ahead." Had to look up the W to see that it stood for RNP 10.
 

Father Jack

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77w

77W means it's a B777-300ER, instead of a B773 or B772.
 

MILPILOT17

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I've flown RNP approaches but I am not familiar with these terms. From what I could find on the web, RNP-5 and RNP-10 are used for en-route separation on oceanic routes.
Can anyone shed more light on this?
Do you have a good source for more info?

Thanks
Search RNP on the FAA's web site.
 

Chairman

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Required Navigation Performance. The number indicated that 95% of the time you have to be with in x miles of course.
 

gutshotdraw

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We're down to RNP .03 for approaches and are working on .01. RNP 5 and RNP 10 are only en route standards of position accuracy. If you have dual GPS, you should be able to comply with both standards with an LOA. Most of Europe now requires RNP 5 for en route nav.
 

Coool Hand Luke

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I got a CPDLC response recently when I requested a climb that went something like this, "Unable, B77W 25 miles ahead." Had to look up the W to see that it stood for RNP 10.
I've not had the pleasure of the CPDLC system, but I assume that you are no longer required to make HF position reports if you have the CPDLC capability?
 

Father Jack

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Just have to get a SELCAL check.
 

DrunkIrishman

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77W means it's a B777-300ER, instead of a B773 or B772.
That's what it was. He gave one that said B77W is RNP 10, then gave a second that it was 25 miles in front. Nonetheless, I had to look up the W part of the 777.
 

DrunkIrishman

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I've not had the pleasure of the CPDLC system, but I assume that you are no longer required to make HF position reports if you have the CPDLC capability?
I actually had a couple flights that we never got an HF freq and did not do a SELCAL check. It was all CPDLC. It was on a further north track than we normally fly is my guess as to why. Otherwise it's always HF as a back up with the SELCAL check. CPDLC works great! HF with the Russians sucks a$$!

DASVIDANIYA!
 

Dumb Pilot

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I've not had the pleasure of the CPDLC system, but I assume that you are no longer required to make HF position reports if you have the CPDLC capability?
CPDLC is coupled with another system called ADS that updates ATC during oceanic operations of you position every ten minutes. Some air spaces have eliminated the requirement of position reports for A/C's equipped with CPDLC/ADS but at the FIR you should check in with the next controller and check your selcall as secondary means of communication
 

Adiabatic Pilot

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We're down to RNP .03 for approaches and are working on .01. RNP 5 and RNP 10 are only en route standards of position accuracy. If you have dual GPS, you should be able to comply with both standards with an LOA. Most of Europe now requires RNP 5 for en route nav.
Do you mean .3 and .11?
 

boxjockey

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You are still required to do a celcal check when changing controlling agencies, even if you are CPDLC and ADS, eg. Tokyo to SFO, etc.
 

Floatplane

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I've flown RNP approaches but I am not familiar with these terms. From what I could find on the web, RNP-5 and RNP-10 are used for en-route separation on oceanic routes.
Can anyone shed more light on this?
Do you have a good source for more info?

Thanks
Kind of scary you are flying approaches that you do not understand or are qualified for. I suggest you do your homework and get some required training so you will actually understand what is required for all RNP flying.
 

lumax

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Thanks for the smart ass response there floatplane. I know that RNP approaches are usually .15, .2, or .3. I know how RNP approaches work and the requirements. If you knew how to read you'd see that I am asking about RNP-5 and RNP-10. As others have kindly responded and explained, these are used for enroute operations in non-radar environments (oceanic), nothing to do with approaches.
Now that you have put me on my place, I hope to someday grow up and be just like you.
It is stupid comments like yours that have turned an informational forum into nothing more than childish bickering.
 

uba757

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I think that the SAAAR approches require an RNP of .11 or greater, Oceanic Airspace requires RNP 4 or higher, In the U.S we use RNP 2 or higher, Europe enroute RNP 5 (B-RNAV) and some SIDS and Stars require RNP 1. Other Managed approaches require RNP .3. Man I wish all those controlling agencies would just get toguether and settle on 1 set of numbers. lol. uba757
 

Floatplane

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Thanks for the smart ass response there floatplane. I know that RNP approaches are usually .15, .2, or .3. I know how RNP approaches work and the requirements. If you knew how to read you'd see that I am asking about RNP-5 and RNP-10. As others have kindly responded and explained, these are used for enroute operations in non-radar environments (oceanic), nothing to do with approaches.
Now that you have put me on my place, I hope to someday grow up and be just like you.
It is stupid comments like yours that have turned an informational forum into nothing more than childish bickering.
Here you go Lumax. Just a place to start, you might also reference your company FOM if you are conducting these en-route operations they should be covered there as well. I would also suggest contacting your training department. Have a nice day!

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/caft/reference/documents/RNP082400S.pdf

http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/ATpubs/AIM/Chap1/aim0102.html

http://www.faa.gov/regulations_poli....cfm/go/document.information/documentID/23143

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...essionid=04306748fce9c11ac32e57591e5a2e3c6c43

http://www.aviationmanuals.com/index.php?page=article_rnp
 
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