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What is our future?

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Future of Profession

  • Hang in there it will get good again

    Votes: 37 28.2%
  • Future is a Captain making 150K yr with only a 401k for retirement

    Votes: 74 56.5%
  • Too many a$$es for the seats time to get out

    Votes: 20 15.3%

  • Total voters
    131
  • Poll closed .

SaifAir

Fr8 Dog
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
67
I have been getting banged around the freight world for about the last ten years. Worked my way up through all of the seats on a 727. Now that I am a PIC I am still making less than even some commuters. I kept on flying all night with the hope that this has an end goal --- A MAJOR AIRLINE. I started in the early 90's right out of college. I was bad then but I think now is worse. What do you think the future of flying? Personally I think the future is just a higher than average paying job with a 401K for retirement and more time off than most jobs. For the first time I am looking for other opportunities I wonder if the money will ever be there again like it was.
 
It will get better and the strong will survive.

Those who are not willing to stick it out at their present position in life, CFI-ing, hauling boxes or checks or working P/T charter plus working the counter at Wal-Mart will go one to find another line of work and the excess of pilots will thin and those who strive to achieve a goal will.

The market could turn around overnight or it could take two, three or four years but it will come around.
My guess is once this war is over things will begin to stabilize, also we’ve had a particularly hard winter in some parts which has effected us as well, the world is just in a glum at present, things will look up!
:) :) :)
 
Good times ahead . . . . really!

I understand what you're saying. I'm sort of an aviation child of the '80s. While I feel that institutional forces impinged on my opportunities, I probably started a year late. When I finally was ripe my time had passed because the early '90s recession/wartime hit.

Aviation is cyclical. Maybe three to five good years followed by three to five bad years. Times always get better because ... they always do. People who feel they have the years to spare should hang in.

I voted Choice No. 2. We could pick up the debate here about the majors remaking themselves into LCCs, with more of them looking to outside vendors with RJs to operate their shorter routes. However, is Choice No. 2 really so bad? Six figures a year to do something you love, along with all the travel and health benies? I would have done it for a third of that.
 
I have to agree with Bobby: number 2.

And no, that isn't so bad.

I never thought I'd be a Delta captain with a mansion in the hills outside Atlanta, anyway.
 
The bottom line is that Americans will always fly. As long as that remains true, there will always be a need for pilots.

However more people fly when the economy is good. So this question is really more like will the economy ever bounce back? Of course it will, it always has... just wait it out and KEEP HOPE ALIVE!
 
I like Bobby came up in the 80's 7000 hr in piston airplanes before I ever saw a turbine, I got lucky in the mid 90's and landed my current position and am just hoping we survive until I retire. I think all three options are possible depending on the goals and motivation of the individual pilot. There will be fewer of the good high paying mainline jobs, more of the type in example 2 and a few will give up and look elsewhere, but they really didn't want to fly anyway. By the way when do I get to make the 150K?
 
choice 2 is great!

There is absolutely nothing wrong with choice #2, I have been in this business for 35 years and it was not until 5 years ago that I started making more than my school teacher sister. Now that is not as bad as it sounds, Michigan school teachers make in the upper 70's. I could live like a king on a 150K and retire well with a 401K.
 
Last edited:
DC9stick said:
By the way when do I get to make the 150K?

Six more years, six more years.

That was for Spirit, my thoughts on the rest of the industry follow with the majority. I see SWA pay rates as being the top of the class within three years and it will take a long time for the mainline carriers to build back to year 2000 rates.

The buying public has come to expect low fares. Yield management worked before the internet, but now anyone can see the lowest rates with a click of their mouse, and people are just not willing to pay four times as much as the person in the next seat. I liken our industry to Sears and Roebucks. In the sixties and seventys, Sears everyday prices got higher and higher, BUT they had a sale every month. The buying public finally became so addicted to the sales, that they wouldn't buy anything at the regular price. That my friends is the problem with the airline business. Revenue is down because the pax just will not pay. Unfortunately, quarter million dollar senior Captain pay rates were based upon high revenues.
I am very thankful that SWA exists. Their pay rates prove that revenues can be low, but still support a Captain making over $150K a year. That looks real good to me and the DC9Stick, as we drive our 156 seats around for less than $100K.

regards,
8N
 
FlyChicaga said:
The $150K and 401(k) sounds good to me. When can I start?

The downfall for our profession will be the guys willing to work for 150k max and no pension, not the guys making 300k annually flying the 777 and 747. When I decided at a young age to fly for a living, I was very aware of the pay and benefits a major airline pilot received and that was a big part of the draw. Yes, I love flying but, considering the amount of work I put forth in both college and this career, I expect to be compensated accordingly. It is a shame that some pilots out there feel they are worth so little!
 
Both of my brothers are high school teachers in our public school system. Both have master degrees, as a charter captain I make more annually than both of them combined. Something to think about.
 
TurboS7 said:
Both of my brothers are high school teachers in our public school system. Both have master degrees, as a charter captain I make more annually than both of them combined. Something to think about.

Well here are my thoughts. Your brothers work for the govt. and we all make chioces in life.
 
I bet you dont have the benefits and retirement plan they do. In addition, you dont have the job security plus dont have off a big portion of the year(summer, winter, spring break, and every holiday)

I hope you dont lose your medical.
 
Checks said:
I bet you dont have the benefits and retirement plan they do. In addition, you dont have the job security plus dont have off a big portion of the year(summer, winter, spring break, and every holiday)

I hope you dont lose your medical.

Ouch, that was pretty brutal...

I think what TurboS7 was trying to say was that just because you have fancy degrees doesn't mean you automatically get paid more... He wasn't bragging that he makes more money than someone with a Masters Degree... He was trying to show how the job market isn't always fair...
 
I hope NONE of us lose our medicals.

That said, it seems to me that when kids in grade school (along with their parents and guidance counselors) start to see the high pay of pilots being whittled down, there will be far fewer people entering the field, reducing the number of available pilots. It's supply and demand: when fewer people become pilots on a commercial track, finding a job will be far easier.
 
Timebuilder said:
I hope NONE of us lose our medicals.

That said, it seems to me that when kids in grade school (along with their parents and guidance counselors) start to see the high pay of pilots being whittled down, there will be far fewer people entering the field, reducing the number of available pilots. It's supply and demand: when fewer people become pilots on a commercial track, finding a job will be far easier.

And the pay will in turn go up.
 
Futura said:
And the pay will in turn go up.

Will the pay go up or when there is a shortage will the minimums to get hired just go down? 500 hour pilots will work for little or nothing.
 
the problem

I think a big part of the problem, if we can call it that, is that we fly because we love to fly and management takes advantage of that.

how many times have I heard pilots say, "i can't believe I get paid to do this"? And these aren't guys who belittle their qualifications, like the shmucks who tell pax that they just push the button on the autopilot and have nothing to do until the plane lands itself. And they don't say that because they didn't work themselves silly to get into their position, or because they don't know they're among the highest qualified professionals in the world, and it's certainly not because they don't sweat out every checkride and medical.

No, they're doing what they want to do. Problem is, there's a high premium on that, so we accept very low pay.

Most non-pilots don't believe that the FO on a turboprop gets paid less than a social worker. But Mesa can pay that because if I don't take that job, someone else will, and I'll wind up being a CFI forever.

I just landed a part-time job flying Navajos and I'm stoked, even though I think I'm worth more than 25 bucks an hour. The problem is, the market says I'm not worth more because if I don't fly that plane, 200 other guys will trample each other to take it. And then I'll never get the multi hours I need for a real flying job (which will also have lousy pay).

Unless every single pilot put his or her foot down and says they won't fly for below a liveable wage (or an upper middle class wage at a decent airline), we'll always have this problem.

Face it guys, we're as easy as teenage nymphomaniacs after a glass of champagne. The blessing of loving what we do has the curse that we often have to do it on the cheap.
 
SaifAir said:
Will the pay go up or when there is a shortage will the minimums to get hired just go down? 500 hour pilots will work for little or nothing.

Either there is a shortage or there isn't one. You can't paint it both ways.
No matter what the min. requirements, companies that are having a hard time finding applicants will inevitably raise their wages in order to attract applicants away from the competition. Its one of those things that happens in this market driven capitalist society that the anti-union posters so often point out.
 
-----------------------------------------------
The downfall for our profession will be the guys willing to work for 150k max and no pension, not the guys making 300k annually flying the 777 and 747.
------------------------------------------------


I see. Blame the guy trying to make a living. Sooooo, if I demanded $250K, I would get it? How silly of me!

If it was only as easy as this you make it seem.

Rainbows and daffodils, fellas!
Don't worry, be happy!

If you are worth so much, how come you can be replaced?
 
Will the pay go up or when there is a shortage will the minimums to get hired just go down? 500 hour pilots will work for little or nothing.

That's the way it has been, due primarily to the "light at the end of the tunel", the Big Iron Major Job, the one with the high pay.

If that job goes away, you may not see the large number of young pilots who see this as a viable career, one "worth the suffering" of living on a regional FO salary. Seriously, will Mom and Dad fund the education that leads to the salary of the guy that owns the auto repair shop down the street, or do they want greater possibilities for little Johnny?

Love of flying is a great motivator, but when you plan your life, and your lifestyle, it may not be enough in the future.
 

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