What is my flight time?

[Clear-&aMillion]

I have about 25 hours in my logbook, all dual received in a PA28.

What is this time really? I heard someone say you can't log SIC time if the plane doesn't require 2 pilots. So if it's not SIC time what is it?

Can I say I have 25 TT???

 

[WIPilot]

Yep that is 25 TT.

It is total time only really. Other than when you solo, You wont start to log pic time until after you get your private and you probably wont log sic time, like you said, unless you fly in an ac that requires 2 crew members.

 

[tracearabians]

Passenger !

 

[Amish RakeFight]

your time before sol is considered dual received and counts towards your total time. When you fly solo before obtaining your private, you will log this as PIC time.

Once you're a Pirvate pilot, you can ride along as a safety pilot and log SIC time. If previously arranged, you could be the acting PIC on such a flight, and the pilot under the hood can log PIC as sole manipulator. This way both of you can log the coveted PIC.

 

[Skyboy722]

your time before sol is considered dual received and counts towards your total time. When you fly solo before obtaining your private, you will log this as PIC time. quote]

Actually, I don't think that's right. It's been a while and I'm not an instructor, but I don't believe you can log PIC until you have your private. Before that, it's just considered either solo or dual received. You can't log PIC until you are rated in the airplane, and before your checkride you fly solo on an endorsement from your instructor. But they are both TT.

 

[gkrangers]

Who the heck is PIC when you solo if you aren't?

 

[machaf]

You log PIC when you are solo and working on your private. . (61.55 (E)(4)).

 

[Skyboy722]

Who the heck is PIC when you solo if you aren't?

Well, you need your instructor's blessing every time you go fly. Of course once in the air you are ACTING as pic, but you can't LOG pic because you are not rated in the airplane. (you don't have a certificate) Until you can grab your buddies and go fly whenever you want, I don't think you can log pic. until your checkride you are operating under your instructor's CFI certificate and the endorsement he/she signed for you.

Like I said, It's been a very long time and I may well be wrong, but that's the way I remember it...FWIW

 

[siucavflight]

your time before sol is considered dual received and counts towards your total time. When you fly solo before obtaining your private, you will log this as PIC time.

Once you're a Pirvate pilot, you can ride along as a safety pilot and log SIC time. If previously arranged, you could be the acting PIC on such a flight, and the pilot under the hood can log PIC as sole manipulator. This way both of you can log the coveted PIC.

You do not log SIC while acting as safety pilot. SIC is only when you are flying a plane that either requires two pilots, or the companies operating specs call for two pilots.

Safety pilot is PIC.

 

[DC8 Flyer]

You log PIC when you are solo and working on your private. . (61.55 (E)(4)).

What does

§ 61.55 Second-in-command qualifications.


(e) A person may receive a second-in-command pilot type rating for the type of aircraft after satisfactorily completing an approved second-in-command training program, proficiency check, or competency check under subpart K of part 91, part 121, part 125, or part 135, as appropriate, in that type of aircraft provided the training was completed within the 12 calendar months before the month of application for the SIC pilot type rating. The person must comply with the following application and pilot certification procedures:


(4) The applicant must complete and sign an Airman Certificate and/or Rating Application, FAA Form 8710–1, and present the application to an FAA Flight Standards District Office or to an Examiner or to an authorized Aircrew Program Designee.

have to do with logging PIC when you are a student pilot on a solo flight?

See 61.51 (e)(4)

(4) A student pilot may log pilot-in-command time only when the student pilot—
(i) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft or is performing the duties of pilot of command of an airship requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember;
(ii) Has a current solo flight endorsement as required under §61.87 of this part; and
(iii) Is undergoing training for a pilot certificate or rating.

 

[Skyboy722]

You log PIC when you are solo and working on your private. . (61.55 (E)(4)).

Found it. I stand corrected. Off to track down my old instructor; he owes me a beer for making me miss out on 20 hrs of PIC!!!

 

[minitour]

Found it. I stand corrected. Off to track down my old instructor; he owes me a beer for making me miss out on 20 hrs of PIC!!!

...of course this did change rather "recently" (relatively speaking). Perhaps you were under the "old rules"?

-mini

 

[twighead]

You do not log SIC while acting as safety pilot. SIC is only when you are flying a plane that either requires two pilots, or the companies operating specs call for two pilots.

Safety pilot is PIC.

nope. the original guy was correct. safety pilot is SIC time, unless both the person flying and the safety pilot agree that the safety pilot will act as PIC for the flight.

 

[SiuDude]

nope. the original guy was correct. safety pilot is SIC time, unless both the person flying and the safety pilot agree that the safety pilot will act as PIC for the flight.

That was a joke, right?

 

[midlifeflyer]

Like I said, It's been a very long time and I may well be wrong, but that's the way I remember it...FWIW

Depends how long. You may be remembering the pre-1997 version of the rule. It was changed in 1997 when, as part of an extensive rewrite of Part 61, 61.51 was amended to specifically allow a student to log solo as PIC time.

Here's what the rule says now:

==============================
61.51(e)(4): A student pilot may log pilot-in-command time only when the student pilot -
(i) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft or is performing the duties of pilot of command of an airship requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember;
(ii) Has a current solo flight endorsement as required under § 61.87 of this part; and
(iii) Is undergoing training for a pilot certificate or rating.
==============================

 

[midlifeflyer]

That was a joke, right?

Which was a joke? Just to clarify, the rules and official FAA interpretation of 61.51 and 91.109 allow the safety pilot to log PIC =if= the safety pilot is also acting as the pilot in command and to log SIC if the safety pilot is not acting as the pilot in command.

Here's the FAA Legal Counsel opinion on the subject from 1993:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...0/interpretations/data/interps/1993/Hicks.rtf

 

[Skyboy722]

Midlifeflyer and minitour,

Ahhh...That would explain it, as it was pre '97. You saved my old instructor from paying the bar tab! Who can keep up with these regs anyway? Guess I should check up on stuff before jumpin in...

 

[Metro752]

WHATS My Age AGAIN?

http://www.mp3.com/tracks/1916227/dl_streams.html

BLINK ME

 

[SiuDude]

Oh, ok, my bad. I've never seen that letter before, and by reading Pt. 61, I thought there was no way someone could log SIC in that way.

Which was a joke? Just to clarify, the rules and official FAA interpretation of 61.51 and 91.109 allow the safety pilot to log PIC =if= the safety pilot is also acting as the pilot in command and to log SIC if the safety pilot is not acting as the pilot in command.

Here's the FAA Legal Counsel opinion on the subject from 1993:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/interpretations/data/interps/1993/Hicks.rtf

 

[pgcfii2002]

25 Tt Pic

 

[twighead]

Oh, ok, my bad. I've never seen that letter before, and by reading Pt. 61, I thought there was no way someone could log SIC in that way.

yeah, not many people actually know this. mostly because who would ever actually log it as SIC time when everyone is doing it to log PIC and split the cost?

the problem is that you are both supposed to agree that the safety pilot is acting as PIC. the reason for this is that if something goes wrong, it is the safety pilot's ass on the line if he is the acting PIC. if you don't designate the safety pilot as PIC, then the guy under the hood is responsible for the flight, but the saftey pilot can still log SIC because he is a required crew member.

 

[siucavflight]

Which was a joke? Just to clarify, the rules and official FAA interpretation of 61.51 and 91.109 allow the safety pilot to log PIC =if= the safety pilot is also acting as the pilot in command and to log SIC if the safety pilot is not acting as the pilot in command.

Here's the FAA Legal Counsel opinion on the subject from 1993:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/interpretations/data/interps/1993/Hicks.rtf

Wow never realized this before. But I would never do this, it would be a pain in the ass to explain on an interview. Thanks for the link, I had no idea.

 

[JimNtexas]

How many times does this safety pilot logging issue come up per week?

The correct answer is of course that in most cases the safety pilot may log SIC time. He or she can log PIC if he or she is the PIC as defined in FAR 1, which is not usually the case.

When a pilot in a single pilot airplane is flying under the hood then there is a second required crewmember. This second crewmember must have a current medical, at least a private pilot license, and be qualified in the class and catagory of the airplane. If the airplane requires a type rating the safety pilot must have the type rating for the airplane.

Since the second crewmember isn't the PIC (in most cases) he or she does not require any endorsements (high performance, high altitude, etc). Because the second crewmember is required under the FARs, then he or she may log SIC time.

 

[pgcfii2002]

I always thought the safety pilot logged PIC time?????

 

[nosehair]

I always thought the safety pilot logged PIC time?????

Only when he/she agrees to BE the PIC. Be resposible for the flight and meet all legal requirements to ACT and BE the PIC, then he/she can log PIC.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

How many times does this safety pilot logging issue come up per week?

The correct answer is of course that in most cases the safety pilot may log SIC time. He or she can log PIC if he or she is the PIC as defined in FAR 1, which is not usually the case.

When a pilot in a single pilot airplane is flying under the hood then there is a second required crewmember. This second crewmember must have a current medical, at least a private pilot license, and be qualified in the class and catagory of the airplane. If the airplane requires a type rating the safety pilot must have the type rating for the airplane.

Since the second crewmember isn't the PIC (in most cases) he or she does not require any endorsements (high performance, high altitude, etc). Because the second crewmember is required under the FARs, then he or she may log SIC time.

Type ratings are not required for SIC (YET) as long as it is a flight remaining in US airspace.
If I asked a friend that had a private multi land to be my safety pilot in a Citation 501 (assuming I didn't have the SIC required Limitation) he could do so as is. (becuase I have the SIC required limitation he would need to meet the 61.55 SIC training requiremens)