What is flying a Lear 23,25,35 like?

[rumpletumbler]

I've wondered about this as these aircraft seem to have so much power. Watching these airplanes depart etc. it seems as if sometimes the pax would be uncomfortable unless the thrill seeker type. I think it would be neat to try if/when I get enough time to qualify. I'm 6' 240lbs as well. Would I be comfortable in the front of one of these aircraft?

RT

 

[TurboS7]

I have flown them all, imagine putting a Roman candle between your legs and and going for a ride. Something like that.......you do need to loose some weight if you are going to be comfortable in it though.

 

[banned username 2]

My best Time to Climb was in a Lear 35a... Took off heading north (600 MSL), did a left Chandelle and crossed the southern boundry of the airport at 18,000 ft doing 250 kias. Elapsed time 1 minute 58 seconds! We were light (no pax and only 3,500 lbs of fuel) and it was cold out.

 

[rumpletumbler]

so did you key the mike and say "YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAA!" or anything like that or did you just let the moment slip away?

RT

 

[avbug]

The learjet series are such smooth and simple flying airplanes that the speed effect is sort of lost. Unless you look at the instrumentation to tell you how fast you're going forward and up/down, you could be sitting in a cramped 172. If it's flown properly, there's no real sensation of speed or rate of climb.

If a thrill means seeing a number on the instruments, then I guess it's a thrill. Otherwise, it's just a well built, soul-less ride.

The nice thing about the airplane is that it has simple systems, and is very straightforward. It flies honestly, has no surprises, and glides great . !

You're not too big for the airplane, though you'd be comfortable as a smaller person. I've flown with people over six feet tall, who all but had their kneecaps against their shoulderblades (slight exageration, but you get the point), and with a pilot who was almost 300 lbs. I'm 5'9 and 145 lbs, and I'm the only one yet I've seen who has to move the seat forward or raise it up. (Terminal shortness is hell)

 

[Timebuilder]

I can't seem to find "YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAA!" in the AIM, but I have come very close to saying it.

When we had Shaquile in one of our planes, he insisted that we request a max performance climb, and ATC gave us a little leash, all within the regs, mind you.






Yes, that one.

 

[banned username 2]

so did you key the mike and say "YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAA!" or anything like that or did you just let the moment slip away?

RT

Actually Departure said "YEEEEHHHAAAA, **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** you guys are climbing fast today!"

My favorite "rapid altitude change" was in a Falcon 50EX coming back from the east coast late at night, the sector was very quiet and we were at FL430... Center left us up there long (we promised an expedicious decent in return for the favor).... He cleared us to 10,000ft, we asked if anyone was below us anywhere along our flight path he said it is clear below.... and down we went at better than 18,000 FPM, power to idle, speed brakes fully deployed and nosed over to redline (M0.86 to 370 Kias)... Obviously we were empty... and my co-pilot was my old college roommate... That was a fun ride!

 

[rumpletumbler]

Avbug,

You are to cool my friend! I can see you in a thunderstorm with a master warning and I look over and your putting all the fires out and working the times crossword puzzle with your good hand.

All in fun. I enjoy reading your posts!

RT

 

[LR25]

Heres whats fun, 2 guys in a Lear25 in the middle of the night hualing checks.

We took of one night with about 3800lbs of gas and about 400lbs of checks. Are clearance was to 10K right of the runway and we knew we were going to get a turn basically 180 degrees from runway heading so we went for a high rate of climb at about 250kts. When we contacted departure he gave us FL240 I think with are heading we were expecting, well with one to go we had the airport under the left wing slightly behind us. YIPPEE!

But like Avbug said, to fly the Lear is like flying a 172 but much smoother, and ohh yea, it dont do much for your ego when your asked to fly 15 degrees off the airway at FL370 so an MD11 can get by doing .86 or whatever and your only doing .80-.81.

Thats when you feel like a Citation, just kidding guys, I couldnt resist.

 

[avbug]

Rumple,

Why put the fires out? Whatchagonna see to read by?

I hate to disappoint, but I've never finished a times crossword (what's eight across and has six legs?), and my good hand has arthritus...punching too many hard objects.

Right back at ya.

 

[Lindy]

My personal favorite....

I like the early 24s (aren't they all??) and the 25s w/ the "Learjet Wing"!!

Now, the fuel issue......

Unfortunately AvBug is right -- I was indicating 500k GroundSpeed today and it felt like 325K.....

 

[Old Crow]

The lear is similar to a Black tom Cat. Soft to the touch, craves attention, will claw the piss out of you so fast you don't know what hit you!

Lear 24, 500 AGL 450 KIAS and still accelerating.
I have no idea when those Vortex Generators come off!

The lear is like a starved animal that feeds on altitude.

Lear 31A, Surface to 510 in 20 minutes then proceed to demonstrate steep turns! Unbelievable...

The Lear is ATC's excitement on a boring night.

"Lear 123, can you be out of FL290 in less that two minutes?"
"Lear 123, Say altitude"
"Lear 123, your blip has dissappeared from our screen cause you're climbing faster than the computer can track you."

Have fun...

 

[banned username 2]

Lear 24, 500 AGL 450 KIAS and still accelerating.
I have no idea when those Vortex Generators come off!

Now its been a long times since I have flown a Lear but last time I checked red line was 307 KIAS below 14,000 ft.... and 359 KIAS above 14,000 ft....

Have fun, but fly safe!

 

[lear24]

You don't need to lose weight to be comfortable in it - you're not going to be too big for a lear at 6' and 240#. When I was flying them I was 6'1" and 260, and they were plenty comfy, except on the SEA - ROC leg with a 36, that was torture. Usually your bladder will hurt a lot more than your legs, so you barely notice. Depending on the configuration of the cabinets behind you, your knees may be pretty close to the panel, but some of the older ones with no cabinet and only a wall have enough room that I had to slide the seat forward a notch or so.

The lear is the neatest airplane I've ever flown, and I miss it a lot. The 24's are the best, 25's without T/R's are pretty good, and the 35's and 36's handle alright but are kind of pigs comparatively speaking.

 

[F70pilot]

Lets see, how did that LR 24E checklist go? "Positive rate--gear up, yaw-damper--on, fuel emergency--declare.

Hand flying at 450 is a guaranteed headache within 20 minutes in the little 24.

 

[Neal]

Speed

FalconCapt.....you're exactly right on the max speed of the 20 series...307 KIAS below 14,000 and 359 KIAS above 14,000. However, once the circuit breaker is pulled it will easily accelerate to 400 KIAS at 500-1000 agl! Makes alot of noise, sucks a ton of gas and pray hard that you don't take a bird to the windshield.

Best climb....Lear31a out of CMH to 10,000 as clock struck 1 min straight above the airport. Departure laughed as they told us to contact center!.

Lear31a 41,000 in 13 minutes is our record. Empty and standard day!

Best descent....13,000 a minute into SAV. Spoilers and MMO/VMO all the way down.

 

[LR25]

We did one of those descents one time down to 5K I think, the approach controller gave a terrain warning to us.

We replied that everything was under control and he said the computer automatically sets a warning off becuase of the rate of descent, till that point I never knew they had this, but it was a military facility so maybe so.

 

[bigD]

::drooling::

You guys are killing me!

 

[Lindy]

I enjoy entertaining the controllers....

Let's see... 31 miles out @ FL310 on a VFR day (uh, night) and you can make the runway...(middle of the night, ATC is slow, discretion all the way down). It's great to hear "nice job..."

What else??

We can fly whatever speed is needed into a busy airport and once the local controllers realize we'll oblige, they use us up. (For example, best forward speed, then slow to 190K, then up to 210K, then .......). In exchange we seem to receive great taxi routes!!

I always laugh at a descent to 6000 (or anything below 10000 for that matter) and the controllers keep asking for "best forward." HMMM....one of these days I'm going to ask if they really mean better than 250K

 

[Timebuilder]

I've already asked if they really want best forward. There is a slight pause, and they call back and say "maintain at or below 250". I respond, sounding disappointed "at or below 250...."

 

[LearCrj]

The Lear is passing through FL 340 indicating .78 Mach and climbing better than 2000 FPM and this is in the Lear 35,the slow climber of the group, mind you.

On a cool night (less than ISA) I have climbed the 24 to FL 390 in less than 9 minutes Yahooooooo!

My current airplane, the RJ, has wet dreams about this kind of performance.

 

[TurboS7]

Best climb

Stripped cargoLR23 going out of YIP with 2500 lbs of fuel, cleared to climb to 390 going to MCI. Took-off to the Northeast and did a right turn to 260 degrees our asigned heading. When we got to the heading with a half standard rate turn we were level at 390. Almost an averge 7000fpm all the way up.

 

[banned username 2]

Re: Best climb

Stripped cargoLR23 going out of YIP with 2500 lbs of fuel, cleared to climb to 390 going to MCI. Took-off to the Northeast and did a right turn to 260 degrees our asigned heading. When we got to the heading with a half standard rate turn we were level at 390. Almost an averge 7000fpm all the way up.

How much fuel did you land with at MCI? 2500 lbs doesn't sound like much departure fuel, even for a fairly short flight as that....

 

[bigD]

2500 lbs doesn't sound like much departure fuel, even for a fairly short flight as that....

Sigh...about half the time in my logbook is in planes with gross weights less than that.

::shakes head::

someday....

 

[banned username 2]

Sigh...about half the time in my logbook is in planes with gross weights less than that.

::shakes head::

someday....

Hehehe... don't feel bad, I have about 1,600 hours of C-172 time... You'll get there!

In the Falcon 900EX we usually target 3,000 lbs for landing fuel (fuel remaining)... gives a nice comfort factor... we can go as low as 2,000 but thats about it for our company...

 

[bigD]

You'll get there!

Heh - thanks! I know. I'm just coming up on a birthday that also marks 7 years from my private, but am still looking to fly a plane grossing more than 4K. I'm sooo close with the Duchess though!

 

[banned username 2]

Heh - thanks! I know. I'm just coming up on a birthday that also marks 7 years from my private, but am still looking to fly a plane grossing more than 4K. I'm sooo close with the Duchess though!

3,900 lbs is pretty close! I also have about 500+ hours in a Duchess.... Nice plane to fly!

 

[Toad4]

Re: Best climb

Stripped cargoLR23 going out of YIP with 2500 lbs of fuel, cleared to climb to 390 going to MCI. Took-off to the Northeast and did a right turn to 260 degrees our asigned heading. When we got to the heading with a half standard rate turn we were level at 390. Almost an averge 7000fpm all the way up.

We fly Lear 23, 24, and 24D's. After flying 99% cargo for the past 12 months and 680 hours, I can safely bet that you landed with between 500-800 lbs. I don't know if you were the PIC, but if you were, you are a FO's nightmare. I had one Capt. who decided that we could go from FWA to DRT non-stop in a 24 with the trunk tank pump inop. I begged and pleaded, but we went anyway. About the time we past GKY he started to get nervous. I explained that if we couldn't do it, now was the time because there is basically nothing within 75 miles of DRT. He said, and I love this, "I think we can make it". We landed with 650 lbs. of fuel and 400 of that was unusable in the trunk. If you don't know, we burn 900 lbs an hour with both running at idle on the ground and approx. 4000 lbs./hr. at T/O power. I figure with 250 lbs. of usable we could have taxied for about 17 min. with both running (if the gauge was right in an airplane that was built in 1967 and still has original wiring).

Another fun story:

Imagine taking of from Mexico at night and your Capt. rolling the aircraft after a low transition T/O (stay low, suck the gear up) at night without telling you. Makes you want a new job real fast.

As far as flying the early 20 series (we actually have a 23 with serial number 34 built in 1965 and our newest is a 24D built in 1969) they are a kick in the pants. One of our stripped 24's has 5800 lbs of thrust and an empty weight of 7100 lbs. If you put on 2000 lbs. of fuel (enough for about 20 min. flight with the ability to go around once) it give a thrust to weight ratio of .64/1 and you will be able to climb at 10,000 ft/min. The controls are light and have good harmony (about like a Bonanza). The airplane has the power to do anything you want and can get to FL410 in 11 min. at gross and from FL 410 to 10,000 in about 3 min. The auto-pilot is the best boat anchor I have ever seen installed in an aircraft so hand flying is the norm. At FL 390 and above, if you think it, it happens (thumb and forefinger only on the controls).

When I was 12 yrs old I thought that cargo Lear pilots had the best job in the world, and I was right for about 6 months. After that everything becomes numbers and you wish you had a better quality of life, more pay, and newer equipment. This becomes painfully evident when the "hot freight" in back over-rides all reasoning in the front.

If you get to fly a Lear for fun there is no better light jet to be in. If you fly it for a job, I recommend the Citation with expensive people in the back who will pay you not to take chances instead of boxes that pay TO take chances.

 

[HueyPilot]

I love the Lear 35. I flew what was essentially a Beechjet prior to flying the 35A. While the Beechjet had better avionics and more room the 35A is faster and has more power than the Beech.

My favorite climbs include one where we climbed out of Cherry Point MCAS with about 4000 lbs of gas, no pax, and it was about 50 degrees outside. That, and we decided to practice an obstacle climb profile, where we leave our flaps at 8 degrees and rotate to about 20 degrees nose high, and climb out just above V2. We asked for a departure clearance straight to 10,000 feet, and we were there in less than a minute.

Another time we did the same thing at Barstow-Daggett (DAG), and the departure procedure said to depart runway 27(??) and make a turn direct to the VOR and climb to 7,000 feet in a holding pattern before turning on course. We were passing 7,000 abeam the departure end of the runway, and center cleared us on course way before we even got to the VOR.

My favorite descent in the Lear 35A was into Ft. Stewart, GA (LHW). The Restricted areas were hot, so they kept us high (270) to pass by the ranges, and once we were clear the restricted areas, they cleared us direct to 4,000, and a 180 degree turn to the west where the field was. I popped the spoilers, banked it to 70 degrees, and nosed it down to Mmo. We were screaming down, and the Flight Surgeon we had on board thought it was some kind of theme park ride!

But ya gotta be careful and start mellowing it out down at the bottom....it's easy to get carried away and forget about the 250 below 10K rule and also descend so fast that your level off is ugly if you don't start reducing the descent rate.

When we're empty, we turn-n-burn...that plane will bank fast, and it'll respond quick with power down low. But at altitude it's kinda a pig unless you're pretty light. If you are heavy-weight and climbing to the high 30s or low 40s, don't lose too much airspeed in the climb because you'll never get it back!

Anyone looking for a good place to get some jet time, the Learjet is a great place to be. But it can bite ya in the arse pretty quick if you're not on top of things.

 

[LR25]

I tell ya, theres alot of Lear fans out here.

I'm glad to see such a positive responce to something.

Huey Pilot, I see you have flown other jets in the military, but I must say, if you havnt flown a 20 series yet, do it, they make a 35 look ill after about 10K ft.

Have fun all.