What is Chautauqua's New Pay Scale?

[Treme]

BS!!!

Yeah right TWAer,

I've got some nice oceanfront property in Kentucky. You in the market?

Welcome to the Railway Labor Act. Your contract may reach its term 4 years, but if you think that you'll actually see a new CBA in less than 7 then you're out of your mind.

You can try to justify it however you please. You guys let down your F/Os -- and judging by the voting, your F/Os were charmed by the promise of quick upgrades and big airplanes. They let it happen.

There will come a time a few years from now when Chautauqua is a mature company and growth has slowed to a crawl. At that time you will have first-officers who may be in that seat for the better part of a decade.

This contract sells them out.

 

[Ivan Yankenoff]

Good post treme. You know what will happen in seven years, we will be once again at the start of another down cycle. Just look at the last about thirty years, the 0-4 period of each century blew. I know I was one of those lucky ones trying to find a job I didn't have to pay for in the early ninties. Why do managements always insist on four to five year terms while in a downturn but seems very cooperative to sign shorter deals while times are good? Could it be that they actually figured out that this industry is cyclical? No never that can't be true. Management actually knows how to get the pilots into a pattern of always bargaining during recessions. Who da thunk it. 2006-2009 will be excellent years for the airlines and chq will be left behind because they signed a contract whose term will not allow them to reap the rewards. Meanwhile wexford and bb are laughing themselves silly.

 

[TWAER]

Yes, good post Treme, you have proven you know nothing about CHQ. Hey Treme and Ivan, How long did it take for us to get a new contract? ........................................ still waiting.......................................................................


When you figure it out, let me know....

 

[Ivan Yankenoff]

looks like two years to me. Still means that you will be lucky to have a new contract in place by 2010. Just in time for the industry to take another dive.

Bottom line is that you sold yourself out for the PROMISE that there will be growth. Now lets say there is this growth, you are still working below what you should and eventually the growth will stop and now you have some real happy FO's. Well thats the american way. Who cares about the people that will be hired down the road as long as I'm sitting in the left seat asap. Oh yeah it's only four years. Christ it took me four years to get through college and that seemed like a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** long time. Only fours years. Let's not step up to the plate now and and do whats best for the profession when we can do it in four years. Because I may be inconvenienced, I may be delayed my upgrade, I may not get the chance to fly the emb170. Whatever.

God forbid bb breaks his promise. Management never does that. They never lie and tell you what you want to hear just to get you to sign on the dotted line. There is no chance that Airways will go TU right? Seems to me that if that would happen there would be plenty of pilots with 4 plus years of longevity sitting in the right seat.

 

[TWAER]

First of all IVAN, I did not vote yes on the contract based on any additional flying. In fact, most people I have talked to voted yes to keep ALL the flying here at CHQ. I could give a rats A$$ if CHQ ever takes delivery of another plane. It would just be more flying that should be done by mainline. Every plane a regional airline receives, means more time I will be stuck at a regional airline. Second, it took 13 months for us to get a new contract. Not two years, not three or four. We started negotiating at the end of Summer last year 2002 even though the old contract was up in 2001. And if it weren't for the failure of the past MEC to file proper paperwork, we could have had this done last year. I am glad you know how the future is going to happen. Can you please tell me when all the majors are going to start hiring again? I would like to start getting my resume together. Oh, and who is going to win the World Series? Please tell me it isn't the Cubs.

 

[Ivan Yankenoff]

So I guess this means you are happy with the fo pay rates and no retirement besides the 401(k).

It would be great if the cubbies won. I put a little wager on them at the beginning of the season in vegas. A longshot but I won a good sum with the pats winning the superbowl a few years back.

Let me see, I know of a few majors that are hiring now or by the first of the year. ATA, AWA, Southwest and AirTran will be a major by first quarter. There is also a few nationals hiring now like Frontier, JetBlue and Spirit. But if history repeats itself the rest who are still in business should be hiring by 07-08.

 

[BlueCanoe]

Let me see, I know of a few majors that are hiring now or by the first of the year. ATA, AWA, Southwest and AirTran will be a major by first quarter. There is also a few nationals hiring now like Frontier, JetBlue and Spirit. But if history repeats itself the rest who are still in business should be hiring by 07-08.

Good Luck!!! Let me know when you get a class date!!

 

[TWAER]

Hey, all FO's know what the pay rates are when apply for the job. If they don't like it, try another "superior" regional.

Let's see Airtran not paid that much more. sad that Ryan INTL does their long hull flying
SW don't have 10,000 for type
ATA know people there say regionals are better QOL sucks pay not great


Now JB, maybe I'll go there and fly a regional jet.

And hey, are you kidding me about retirement plans in the airline industry. Let me just take half of my money and flush it. No thank you. Airtran seems to have the only good retirement plan.

 

[Ivan Yankenoff]

SW don't have 10,000 for type

Should have taken the voluntary furlough and used the WIA program to pay for most of it like I did. Also not quite 10,000 try 7000. Don't need the type to interview. I suppose you couldn't pony up the money if they offered you a job right?

Let's see Airtran not paid that much more. sad that Ryan INTL does their long hull flying

Not paid much more? A second year FO makes more than a third year captain at chq. Don't quote me but FL's payscale will top out around 180/hr when they get the 737's. and ryan won't be doing their flying all that long when they get the 737's this next summer.

ATA know people there say regionals are better QOL sucks pay not great

Hmm, don't know what to say here but I have about twenty friends there and no real complaints from them. You might want to look into their payscale also because at the end of their contract the only carriers with a better scale will be Delta and Northwest provided they don't give into concessions.

And hey, are you kidding me about retirement plans in the airline industry. Let me just take half of my money and flush it. No thank you. Airtran seems to have the only good retirement plan.

Both my DC and DB funds seem to being doing fine even though there are no contributions going into the DC fund now it seems to keep going up at a good clip. The DB plan is fully funded as of Sept 30th. You might want to look into the legislation going through congress right now to help out with the problems with pension plans. You probably don't know anything about it because IBT isn't doing their job and notifying you to call your senators and representatives. I get an email from ALPA about once every other week on legislative affairs.

Bluecanoe, got an interview set up with one of them and I'm told by friends I should be getting a call from one of the others any day but the resigning seniority issue presents a tough decision.

 

[TWAER]

GOt more than 20 friends at ATA and most not all are sorry they took the job. Again, pay is not everything.

 

[brew3departure]

Ivan

Ivan, only one question for you.

If you do in fact have an interview set up with one of these airlines, and you're so quick to point out that you were one of the 28 who voted no (would you like a medal for that, by the way?) - the issue of RESIGNING YOUR SENIORITY NUMBER is a question? Please, please tell me that's not your CHQ seniority number, right?

If you can come on this forum, trash your fellow pilots, trash the company and be so quick to beat your chest about how "I voted no" - it had better be a mainline seniority number you're not wanting to give up. If it is, I understand and pardon me for asking. If not, hypocracy, party of one, your table is ready...

And, either way, good luck on the interview.

-brew3

 

[Ivan Yankenoff]

I haven't trashed the company or the pilots. The only negative things I have said were about the poor contract. I don't ever remember saying CHQ sucks, the pilots suck because I do not believe this so stop trying to make me out to be the a**h*le. I've ripped on airline managements as a whole a said that bb and wexford are laughing themselves silly which they are.

Like I would have an issue with resigning my seniority number with CHQ, not to be disrespectful I have appreciated the employment without the demand of seniority resignation. For your information when you quit a job you automatically resign your seniority number right? So if I quit CHQ to go to one of these other carriers is there an issue with resigning seniority?

We'll see about 28. I've learned that the number of people to have claimed to have voted against a contract a year or two later is increased by about 500%. It's like how many people claim to have been at woodstock or the icebowl. Lambeau field only held about 45,000 at the time but 4,500,000 people claim to have been there.

You still have a seniority number at Midwest connect right? I believe their contract allows you to bypass furlough until all have been recalled(which they have) and then take a year personal loa. It would be wise to do this if possible because you never know. It's always nice to have something to fall back on.

 

[lazy8s]

You know what will happen in seven years, we will be once again at the start of another down cycle.

Ivan,

You must have a Masters in Aviation Planning. A down cycle in 7 years huh?? The cycles go about every 10 years right??

I don't see the current "up-cycle" we are in. I must have mis-read the papers when they said that the industry was in it's WORST downturn in history.

I forgot, you are a friggin genius and know everyting about the industry. What was the name of your consulting group again??

If you are so underpaid and unhappy, Do us all a favor at CHQ, Quit. I don't need an a$$hole like you in my right seat.

Lazy8s

 

[Ivan Yankenoff]

Hmm, who let Ed Gein walk away from Mendota Mental Health Instiitute again. Oh I'm sorry he died in Oak Hill Correctional awhile back.


We are in the upturn moron. Sorry I don't usually lowerer myself to name calling but since it seems to be your forte'. Hmm we just celebrated the year anniversery of the current bull market. Let me guess you didn't see delta results today. A loss but when they get their costs inline it will be a profit. Many people think that CAL will show a profit within the next two quarters. Obviously AirTran, Southwest, Jetblue, America West, and ATA are profitable if not close. I've been told that even Midwest airlines will be profitable in the third quarter.

I agree ten year cycles but it isn't as simple as an on off switch. There is always an area of wallowing where the uncertainty leads corporations to pull in the reins until more positve signs are shown.

How long have you been in this industry? Me personally employed for almost ten years and have been intensely following it for almost twenty five. Third generation back to the beginning of Western with cousins and uncles still at many of the majors. How many thankgiving dinners in your family involved the discussion of airline economics and business plans? I personally don't remember one without. So yes I have a little experience to fall back on. Far from being able to predict the future outside of historically data.

I don't see the current "up-cycle" we are in. I must have mis-read the papers when they said that the industry was in it's WORST downturn in history.

You must not have read the papers in awhile then. I remember the CEO's of Delta, CAL, AMR, AWA, FL, TZ, UAL and YX stating that the have seen marked improvement with only the normal pull back of Sept.

 

[TWAER]

IVAN, I agree we are in the start of turnaround, not an upswing. This turnaround has come at the expense of the employees that make up the airlines. It has also come with the outsourcing of flying to the regionals. Instead of losing Billions they are down to millions and most will still report losses way into next year. I do not see an upswing at all. The majors are just reducing the expenses they have to show investers that brighter days are ahead. Ticket prices are too low and the business traveler is pretty much gone for good. In my opinion, in which you will not agree, the cycles of the airline industry, that have existed in the past are gone as we know it. My family is also rooted in the Airlines but that was before 9/11 and before the total explosion of the regional carriers. Even if the economy gets red hot again, don't look for much hiring or expansion of any of the mainline carriers. They will just outsource it to the lowest bidder. That way, when the economy tanks again(and it will), they do not get raped again like they did in 2001. Anyway just my opinion( and that of my next door nieghbor who has flown for 25 years at Delta).