What is ACTUAL?

[BYUFlyr]

Is there a legal definition for "actual" or IMC? For purposes of logging flight time the reg reads: "... flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated flight conditions." Now what's the legal definition for IMC? Is it in the clouds? Is it whenever operating below VFR minimums? If it's the latter then a VFR private pilot operating under special VFR can legally log actual instrument time if operating in low visibility by reference to the instruments. Furthermore, any aircraft operating under SVFR violates a FAR if the aircraft certification does not permit flight in IMC.

I understood that there really wasn't a formal definition of IMC, but this morning an instructor said IMC was whenever you operate in conditions below VFR minimums, e.g. operating at 10,500 with 4 miles visibility in Class E. Is this another gray area?

 

[nosehair]

For purposes of logging flight time the reg reads: "... flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated flight conditions." Now what's the legal definition for IMC? Is it in the clouds?

I understood that there really wasn't a formal definition of IMC, but this morning an instructor said IMC was whenever you operate in conditions below VFR minimums, e.g. operating at 10,500 with 4 miles visibility in Class E. Is this another gray area?

The definition is in the regulation - when you operate solely by reference to instruments. Meaning flight instruments, not navigation instruments. If you cannot see enough horizon or level surface to keep the airplane level with the earth's surface, you are in "IMC" conditions. You are not IMC just because conditions are less than VFR.
1 mile vis is what is required for Class G, and Special VFR. Normally, with 1 mile vis, you should be able to see the ground at pattern altitudes, so that would not normally be having to control the aircraft by ref to instruments, but certain cases of low vis and into the sun or at night over water, you might be in "simulated IMC conditions" for a few moments, but not IFR, as in having to have pilot and airplane certified for IFR.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

technically, on a moonless night in VFR conditions over an unpopulated (unlighted) area can be logged as actual time.

 

[drinkduff77]

Furthermore, any aircraft operating under SVFR violates a FAR if the aircraft certification does not permit flight in IMC.

This is only required between sunset and sunrise.

Sec. 91.157

Special VFR weather minimums.

(a) Except as provided in appendix D, section 3, of this part, special VFR operations may be conducted under the weather minimums and requirements of this section, instead of those contained in Sec. 91.155, below 10,000 feet MSL within the airspace contained by the upward extension of the lateral boundaries of the controlled airspace designated to the surface for an
airport.
(b) Special VFR operations may only be conducted--
(1) With an ATC clearance;
(2) Clear of clouds;
(3) Except for helicopters, when flight visibility is at least 1 statute mile; and
(4) Except for helicopters, between sunrise and sunset (or in Alaska, when the sun is 6 degrees or more below the horizon) unless--
(i) The person being granted the ATC clearance meets the applicable requirements for instrument flight under part 61 of this chapter; and
(ii) The aircraft is equipped as required in Sec. 91.205(d).
(c) No person may take off or land an aircraft (other than a helicopter) under special VFR--
(1) Unless ground visibility is at least 1 statute mile; or
(2) If ground visibility is not reported, unless flight visibility is at least 1 statute mile.

I understood that there really wasn't a formal definition of IMC, but this morning an instructor said IMC was whenever you operate in conditions below VFR minimums, e.g. operating at 10,500 with 4 miles visibility in Class E. Is this another gray area?

Don't believe everything you hear. Although it is easy to argue against logic when dealing with the FAR's, sometimes common sense can prevail. I would feel safe in saying that the majority of those in authority would agree that if you aren't using your instruments to fly but still below vfr mins (i.e. 900' feet above a cloud deck in class E vis unlimited), you shouldn't be logging it as actual IMC.

Just my $.02

-'duff

 

[midlifeflyer]

technically, on a moonless night in VFR conditions over an unpopulated (unlighted) area can be logged as actual time.

The famous "moonless night" interpretation goes back to a 1984 FAA Legal opinion. The opinion also contains the FAA's definition of "actual":


==============================
November 7, 1984
Mr. Joseph P. Carr

Dear Mr. Carr:
This is in response to your letter asking questions about instrument flight time.
First, you ask for an interpretation of Section 61.51(c)(4) of the Federal Aviation Regulations (FAR) regarding the logging of instrument flight time. You ask whether, for instance, a flight over the ocean on a moonless night without a discernible horizon could be logged as actual instrument flight time.

[unrelated portion snipped]

As you know, Section 61.51(c)(4) provides rules for the logging of instrument flight time which may be used to meet the requirements of a certificate or rating, or to meet the recent flight experience requirements of Part 61. That section provides in part, that a pilot may log as instrument flight time only that time during which he or she operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments, under actual (instrument meteorological conditions (imc)) or simulated instrument flight conditions. "Simulated" instrument conditions occur when the pilot's vision outside of the aircraft is intentionally restricted, such as by a hood or goggles. "Actual" instrument flight conditions occur when some outside conditions make it necessary for the pilot to use the aircraft instruments in order to maintain adequate control over the aircraft. Typically, these conditions involve adverse weather conditions.
To answer your first question, actual instrument conditions may occur in the case you described a moonless night over the ocean with no discernible horizon, if use of the instruments is necessary to maintain adequate control over the aircraft. The determination as to whether flight by reference to instruments is necessary is somewhat subjective and based in part on the sound judgment of the pilot. Note that, under Section 61.51(b)(3), the pilot must log the conditions of the flight. The log should include the reasons for determining that the flight was under actual instrument conditions in case the pilot later would be called on to prove that the actual instrument flight time logged was legitimate.

[unrelated portion snipped]

Sincerely,
/s/
John H. Cassady
Assistant Chief counsel
Regulations and Enforcement Division
==============================

Surprisingly nice and simple. "Actual" is when outside conditions are such that you have to use the instruments to keep the shiny side up.

 

[ePilot22]

Huh?

technically, on a moonless night in VFR conditions over an unpopulated (unlighted) area can be logged as actual time.

... .

Not that I care, because I would NEVER log this as actual, but shouldn't you be on a IFR flight plan?

If not, it can't be IMC.

Even if you are on an IFR flight plan, then I believe logging it as actual is still questionable.

But it's your logbook...




eP.

 

[BYUFlyr]

This is only required between sunset and sunrise.

Well, the DV20 (Katana) is approved for IFR operations; but flight into IMC is prohibited, per the POH and placard. So by the other instructor's definition (if IMC = less than VFR mins.) a SVFR clearance in that airplane, regardless of day or night, would violate a FAR by flying into "IMC".

I only used that scenario to prove my point to him that flying in conditions less than VFR did not necessarily constitute IMC or actual (are they the same thing? Can you be in IMC and not be in "actual"?).

 

[Amish RakeFight]

"Actual" instrument flight conditions occur when some outside conditions make it necessary for the pilot to use the aircraft instruments in order to maintain adequate control over the aircraft. Typically, these conditions involve adverse weather conditions.
To answer your first question, actual instrument conditions may occur in the case you described a moonless night over the ocean with no discernible horizon, if use of the instruments is necessary to maintain adequate control over the aircraft. The determination as to whether flight by reference to instruments is necessary is somewhat subjective and based in part on the sound judgment of the pilot.


Surprisingly nice and simple. "Actual" is when outside conditions are such that you have to use the instruments to keep the shiny side up.

Precisely.

.

 

[BYUFlyr]

"Actual" instrument flight conditions occur when some outside conditions make it necessary for the pilot to use the aircraft instruments in order to maintain adequate control over the aircraft. .... The determination as to whether flight by reference to instruments is necessary is somewhat subjective and based in part on the sound judgment of the pilot.

Thanks for the clarification, that's what I was looking for. So it is somewhat subjective, though not "actual" if you're 100 feet below an overcast sky in Class E with 100 mi visibility.

 

[VSUPilot]

Remember, just because IMC is defined by conditions less than the visibility, cloud clearance, and ceiling prescribed by VFR minimums doesn't mean that you can or should log it as actual. If you have to question if it was actual (to log as such 61.51), it wasn't.