What if part of an equip. is inop?

[Vladimir Lenin]

say you have a 172 with an inop flap position idicator, Part 91 flight instruction

it's not needed by the ADs, nor the Day or Night VFR reqs, nor the IFR reqs, nor for types of operations

it's not listed in the equipment list as Required

can you take off w/ it marked inop, or do you have to fix?

 

[midlifeflyer]

say you have a 172 with an inop flap position idicator, Part 91 flight instruction

it's not needed by the ADs, nor the Day or Night VFR reqs, nor the IFR reqs, nor for types of operations

it's not listed in the equipment list as Required

can you take off w/ it marked inop, or do you have to fix?

Assuming all of that is correct, chances are you'll find that flap indicator markings are part of the "certification basis" — "Part of the VFR-day type certification instruments and equipment prescribed in the applicable airworthiness regulations under which the aircraft was type certificated." 91.213(d)(2)(i).

I don't have a copy of the old CAR regs or even earlier versions of Part 23, but look at the current FAR 23.697 & 23.699. Wouldn't be surprised if older versions are the same.

In which case, you would have to fix.

 

[luvu]

the slippery slope - from another board

Forwarded by "I don't work there no more, thank God"



Fedmagnet
Unregistered User
(5/21/04 2:48 am)
Reply FMR Lead Tech and MX Observer
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In regards to the flight controls freezing in the 800XP;
Thanks for the detailed input on the amounts of grease, types of grease and intervals of greasing. All important points in this problem.

Here is another point to ponder:
MX Observer talked of changing intervals of service to help this problem but I think following the established interval of inspection and service procedure (in the Rayteon M/M ) is the biggest problem here. When a plane goes into a ---- maintenance base for a scheduled inspection regardless of the phase or inspection due, the inspection never takes much longer than it takes someone to find a blank 501 and fill in the words "Such and Such Inspection Complete" and another 501 that reads "Weekly Inspection Complete". The majority of the tough work comes from trying to clear 501's written up by the crew. After 8 1/2 hours of rest the crew receives an emergency call to save another CE650 trip that scheduling knew about 2 days ago. When the crew arrives at the plane with 30 minutes to launch time, they know that they are being pressured to leave quickly. No time to preflight, no time to read and understand the sign-offs, just fuel and leave now!

But wait we have 2 pilots that don't fit the ----- profile and they start noticing TKS fluid is still low, Oxygen is still down, but how could this be, the sign-off says it's all good. What ....the hydraulic level is nowhere to be found. When you mention to the mechanic that is grumpily servicing the TKS that you also need some hydraulic fluid, he immediately states how long it will take to get the cart out to the plane in the hopes that you will say "Never Mind. We have to GO".
Now your B/Berry starts ringing, Yep it's dispatch wants to know if you have left yet and states that the passengers will be waiting at the pick up point.

Now you really get brave and look at the sign-offs from the inspection and the 501's that you wrote 9 1/2 hours ago, this is were your blood pressure goes through the roof. Items that were MELed are suddenly "Connections Checked Secure", "OPS Check OKed". Grounding items that included words like "Part Missing" or "Broken" now have been "Placed on Watch-list".

Ask the lead mechanic if anything was found during the inspection and they say no with a strange look on their face and they walk off.

Have you ever seen an aircraft with more than one service paneled pulled off?
If a panel is pulled it's because someone is going after a particular part.

I am an A&P and I am familiar with inspections, PHASE and Full inspections. Usually someone spends hours carefully pulling panels then spends hours inside and laying on creepers with flashlight, mirror, rags and grease guns and writing down discrepancies found and constantly following along on the procedures outlined in the Maintenance Manual. Before the panels are closed all procedures in the manual are followed and parts removed and replaced per manual. All discrepancies found are cleared including parts that need R/R. If you don't have the part, the part is ordered and the plane stays put until it is installed.

Here is a typical ----- inspection:
1. When the plane arrives ask the pilot what he has before he or she writes it up.
2. Talk the pilot out of writing anything up with phrases like "we do that automatically", "we don't have any tires in stock", "they will take care of that at the next inspection at .......", We won't be able to fix that before you leave", "we won't have enough time to work on that", "we will just watch-list it", "you are running out of duty time and your ride is here", "I think the Fax is broken", "ops said you have a trip at 5:00am".
3. Did the pilot write anything up? If yes pencil whip-it.
4. Inspection Complete.

 

[A Squared]

Yes, the flap position indicator is required by certificateion.

I don't recall the exact reference, but it's in both CAR 3 and FAR 23. I remember this because I've used it before to illustrate the that it is no simple task to determine that a piece of equipment is not required. It's much more involved than "tomato flames" (or whatever cutesey acronym) and whether it's listed on the equipment list as required.

You have to know if it's required by the certification standards in general (this requires being intimately familiar with Part 23 and/or CAR 3 or whatever part is appropriate) *and* if it's required by the specific type certificate (requires specific knowledge of hte type certificate) , *and* if it's required by an AD (complete review of all applicable AD), *and* if it's required by the operating regulations.

If you think you've got a handle on all that, then you can de-activate it (if you're a mechanic) and placard it "Inop"

 

[justApilot]

hey avbug...........BLOW ME

 

[avbug]

Ah, the master of intellect arises from the grave to wax poetic.

I guess we know what your line of work is now, after all.

Shall we just call you john?

 

[justApilot]

Call me what you want avbug.....and if by being stupid is me showing up in your dreams and making you look like a bitch then I will.

 

[avbug]

I have no idea what you just said, but I can only presume that it was meant to be given in the English language.

Was it not you that said

And had you looked at mine you would have known what my "line of work" is.

? (it was)

Given that I have only responded to what YOU provided, how is it that it upsets you so?

Clearly the implication here is that your line of work is not, well...clear.

So why don't you do the world a big favor, when you tire of begging for sexual favors, and tell the whole class what your line of work really is?

Can you do it?

 

[CaSyndrm]

If the backlighting is in-op it can be MEL'd just as a lighting problem in most MEL's. So in this case chances are you could go flying. Furthermore most MEL's having to do with lighting have the words "pilot's discretion" in them so the crew can decide if alternative lighting will be sufficient.

I find it interesting that the AVBUG asks somebody to say what there line of work is, while not saying what it's line of work is.

 

[avbug]

Glad you're so interested, mate. As you'll note by reading the thread, I'm not the one who said,

And had you looked at mine you would have known what my "line of work" is.

Or who stipulated

........in my line of work it is accurate

The relevance of Mr. justApilot's line of work was introduced by Mr. justApilot. By fiat, one must be able to view Mr. justApilot's profile, upon his own request, to determine his line of work. However, upon review of that profile, his "line of work" is not evident. Pilot? Mechanic? What is covered up? The trend of this thread was nothing more than following the evidences of justApilot. He brought it up, and then refused to identify what that line of work may be. Instead, his masterful response was "blow me."

Evidently he is covered up due to a sexual fixation, possibly a perversion, according to his own expanded dialogue. Covering up usually indicates discomfort, or a need to hide one's self, perhaps subconsciously. Perhaps even fear of discovery. Due to the limited nature of his or her response, we are left to ponder weather "blow me" is a pleading, a command, or a request. As this represents the only evidence he has elected to present with regard to his line of work, we can only assume that he is attempting to tell us something about his line of work, something he is ashamed or afraid to admit ("covered up"), which evidently relates to his or her sexual insecurity.

No harm done. The first step is admitting it. He or she will come out of the closet when he or she is good and ready. Until then, apparently it's best to leave this person "covered up."