What has ALPA done for me lately?

[ualdriver]

Court Rules in Favor of ALPA In Kin-Care Case

On Thursday, we received a decision in the Kin-Care case declaring that United must comply with the California statute concerning use of sick leave to care for sick relatives.***** The statute requires employers who give their California based employees paid sick leave to allow employees to use up to one-half of their sick leave entitlement to care for sick relatives: parents, spouses, domestic partners and children.***** The ruling will not go into effect immediately.***** We will continue to advise you of additional developments. *****
*****
The United MEC expresses its appreciation to ALPA Attorneys Betty Ginsburg and Russ Woody, along with California-based attorneys Steve Berzon, Stacey Leyton and B.J. Chisholm for their work in representing the pilots of United Airlines.

United’s competitors (AAL, EGL, SWA, etc.) comply with the statute and allow their California-based pilots to call in “California Sick” without any further questions.
United admitted it doesn’t comply with the statute, but claimed the statute was preempted under ERISA, the Railway Labor Act, the Air Line Deregulation Act and the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution. The Judge rejected all those claims and has ruled that an injunction will be entered mandating that United must comply with California law.

Special thanks should be given to the United pilots who displayed the commitment to their fellow pilots by agreeing to be the named individual plaintiffs in the case.
The judge's decision now becomes the decision of the California Superior Court. The Company has the right to appeal the decision to the California Court of Appeals., The judge hearing this case, however, is very respected in California and we believe we have a strong case on appeal.

The decision now sets the stage for ALPA to apply for an award of attorney’s fees and expenses. This has been very expensive litigation, but we will have an opportunity to seek recovery of fees and expenses.

We will begin oversight of this ruling, work with our communications resources to disseminate pertinent details and provide updates on this ruling as we proceed.

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

What has ALPA done for me lately?

Took your money!

Does that count?
KBB

 

[Flyer1015]

To answer your question, "nothing"

 

[samballs]

As I say every week "NOTHING"

 

[Lear70]

Some people are never satisfied, I guess... :erm:

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Give them $100 and they'll complain it is in $1 bills.

 

[Lear70]

When the women throw $1 bills at me, I never complain...

 

[AlbieF15]

Anyone with SA on how this applies in other states...and if it applies if the airline is based in that state or not?

My employer has denied sick leave for things like taking care of pregnant wives, etc. Might be good to have some facts for future reference.

 

[Lear70]

The last time a Superior Court ruled on an HR benefit issue was in Michigan (a "right to work state") whereby the FMLA leave entitlement ruling came out for pilots and flight attendants and other workers who did not meet the "hourly requirement" based on flight hours alone. They construed duty time to apply to the hourly litmus test for full-time, eligible employees, including us (as it should be).

That ruling has pretty much gone on to apply to every state. Some employers have fought it, but the employee has always won if they dug their heels in and stuck to it.

That said, FMLA is a FEDERAL program. This is a state-run program for residents of California. If you (or your employer) are based in California, you're probably automatically entitled to it. If you're not based in Cali, not sure how it would apply. One could also attempt to use the "me, too" clause that tends to apply in HR cases, meaning that if your company has a CA base, then THOSE employees get it, therefore YOU do, too, or it becomes discriminatory practice...

However, you are perfectly within your legal rights to take FMLA leave to care for your spouse. The question is using your sick leave for it. Hillary is pushing a similar measure to be enacted on a Federal level - one of the few positive things she's done lately. It's not a "free" program, just the ability for you to use YOUR OWN sick leave for FMLA leave issues...

You might have some luck quoting the case to your HR people with some of the ruling details along with an FMLA leave request, but it'll probably be battles that are won one case at a time, just like the application of the Michigan FMLA ruling... it's taken a few YEARS to get all the airlines to comply and some outright battles between the pilot and each airline's HR department.

Good luck!

 

[xjcaptain]

My employer has denied sick leave for things like taking care of pregnant wives, etc. Might be good to have some facts for future reference.

O.K. I've gotta ask....How many wives do you have, and how do you afford more than 1?

 

[AlbieF15]

O.K. I've gotta ask....How many wives do you have, and how do you afford more than 1?

:laugh: Okay...you got me. But to answer your question...one and one only, for 21 years. It rocks to get to live with someone you both love and like and the same time...

The pilot in question wasn't me...but a friend got lectured while he was on the road with a wife in pre-term labor.

At the same time, we DO have a few guys who have had multiple wives...some at different times and some concurrently. The latter examples have led to so pretty interesting stories...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Albie... contact your CA..... I am sure s/he can get the answer.... especially if you are still a block rep....

 

[Draginass]

ALPA has done nothing but dumb-down scope, wages, and working conditions for the last 10 years. It a disgrace of a union.

And now they want to give the airlines more flying hours per day that'll kill even more mainline pilot jobs.

 

[CFIT]

ALPA has done nothing but dumb-down scope, wages, and working conditions for the last 10 years. It a disgrace of a union.

And now they want to give the airlines more flying hours per day that'll kill even more mainline pilot jobs.

Gee, Rez

Looks like it's not all sunshine and puppies....

 

[Mr Hat]

Let me know when they get real and start taking care of the REAL problems facing the industry:
1. Abolshing or at least attempting to amend the RLA forcing companies to negotiate in good faith and stop the downward spiral of the industry.
2. Getting Regional Jets put back on property of the major airlines. This also contributed heavily to the downward spiral of the profession. Instead they allowed everyone to get bigger RJs.

These two things should be first and foremost on ALPAs mind....and they just....aren't. Poop.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Gee, Rez

Looks like it's not all sunshine and puppies....

Yep, mama never said it life is easy but when you grow up and sit at the adult table it is not all sunshine.

You've consistently have had two choices:

1. Be a professional and sit at the table with labor, govt, management and industry and address complex problems working together (sometimes) to find solutions.

2. Be a child and be told what, where, when, how and why to act. Be spoken to but not be afforded the right to speak and represent yourself. In other words... sunshine and puppies.


While you've been told you operate in the realm of #1, you can use the process of elimination to figure out reality. (let me know if you need a hint)

 

[CFIT]

Rez, Do you sit at the same table with Timmy?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

CFIT.... what is your position on the issues?

What are the issues?

 

[JoeMerchant]

CFIT.... what is your position on the issues?

What are the issues?

ALPA can't even deal with it's own issues...There is still a conflict of interest issue between regional and mainline members of ALPA. Maybe if ALPA could resolve some it's internal issues, more people would see some value in ALPA...Until then, most of us see ALPA for what it is.

 

[ualdriver]

Until then, most of us see ALPA for what it is.

......said the ALPA pilot who brags about his six figure salary and 18 days off a month flying a 50 seat RJ..........

I hope that if I ever end up at an ALPA regional that ALPA "fails" me as badly as it "failed" you......

 

[Lear70]

......said the ALPA pilot who brags about his six figure salary and 18 days off a month flying a 50 seat RJ..........

I hope that if I ever end up at an ALPA regional that ALPA "fails" me as badly as it "failed" you......

You *DO* realize that he's the EXTREME exception,,, NOT the norm at a Regional carrier at that salary and days off,,, right?

ALPA has its uses, although it's not the cure-all that many pilots want it to be. It's imperfect, and Scope issues are one of the imperfections.

To make this career better, when UAL and CAL combine, it's perhaps one of the most important Scope battles of this decade: to keep CAL Scope restrictions in place. Unfortunately, that will come at the expense of the regional carrier feed at UAL. You'd furlough hundreds of CoEx pilots in the process.

Again, ALPA can't fix that problem. To properly represent the mainline ALPA pilots and keep Scope they have to screw the regional ALPA pilots. Can't have it both ways on this one...

As for me, I'll take ALPA, warts and all. Better than a free-for-all union melee going on out there.

 

[ualdriver]

You *DO* realize that he's the EXTREME exception,,, NOT the norm at a Regional carrier at that salary and days off,,, right?

What I realize is that one of the loudest critics of ALPA on this forum is also one of the guys who seems to have a pretty sweet ALPA pilot gig- or at least that what he tells us all.

I am very aware of regional airline compensation levels. I am also very aware of the history that led to the massive growth of this sector of the industry. I am also aware of the importance of scope and our up and coming contract integration.

Having said that, hopefully you and others realize that it is extremely unlikely that billions of dollars worth of 70 seat RJ's are suddenly going to be parked in the desert due to our contract integration. Both the CAL pilots and UAL pilots are going to want the best of both contracts, with CAL scope obviously being the best. How that wide canyon is crossed during negotiations with a management team that wants to have Mesa fly our 747-400's is going to be difficult and likely some sort of compromise.

 

[PCL_128]

Again, ALPA can't fix that problem. To properly represent the mainline ALPA pilots and keep Scope they have to screw the regional ALPA pilots. Can't have it both ways on this one...

I completely disagree. It isn't "screwing" the regional pilots to hold on to scope at the mainline level. It provides upward movement for the regional pilots that want to move on to mainline (which is most regional pilots), and it provides upward pressure on wages for the guys that don't want to leave.

 

[Lear70]

I completely disagree. It isn't "screwing" the regional pilots to hold on to scope at the mainline level. It provides upward movement for the regional pilots that want to move on to mainline (which is most regional pilots), and it provides upward pressure on wages for the guys that don't want to leave.

In theory, yes.

In reality. Come on... really? No... really? Tell that to the hundreds of UAL express carrier pilots who end up on the street IF CAL is able to hold onto their Scope provisions (and I see no reason for them NOT to hold onto them, since the CAL pilots can nix the entire deal if they don't like it - and I don't know too many CAL pilots who DO like the merger idea to begin with, BEFORE even discussing Scope).

In reality, IF those jets get parked, or even a fraction of them, even if CAL were able to negotiate a reverse "jets for jobs", whereby the parking of those planes leads to the GUARANTEED hiring of those UAL express pilots... WHEN all the UAL and CAL furloughees are back and WHEN the combined carrier starts hiring again (not soon), you'll see a massive job loss for those Express pilots in what is, arguably, the worst hiring environment our industry has ever seen (more than 4,000 ATP rated pilots furloughed, some permanently as carriers went out of business).

So yes, in theory, better scope means more mainline jobs. Eventually. Someday. When all the major airline furloughees are back to work (maybe this upturn... MAYBE in another 5-7 years at the NEXT upturn). Until then,,, it'll suck for the guys at the bottom of the Express carriers lists. Just a harsh reality.

But then again, I've always said the "fix" to our industry will be bloody, painful, and will occur only at the expense of jobs which will put a lot of people out of work until we get this whole bloody mess that the previous generation left us straightened out. I'd like to kick whoever originally signed off on ANY jet flying being outsourced squarely in the nuts.

That, by the way, is a rhetorical statement... in case our friends down in Orlando are reading today.

 

[jonjuan]

I completely disagree. It isn't "screwing" the regional pilots to hold on to scope at the mainline level. It provides upward movement for the regional pilots that want to move on to mainline (which is most regional pilots), and it provides upward pressure on wages for the guys that don't want to leave.

Similar thought process in having 1st year CAL pilots make sub $30K. Afterall, they'll make it up when they are in the left seat some day.

 

[PCL_128]

Similar thought process in having 1st year CAL pilots make sub $30K. Afterall, they'll make it up when they are in the left seat some day.

That isn't analogous at all, actually.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Alabim, Alabao, Alabimbomba, ALPA, ALPA Rah Rah RaaaaaaH!

You girls look so cute waving your pom poms

 

[HalinTexas]

I'd like to kick whoever originally signed off on ANY jet flying being outsourced squarely in the nuts.

That would be DALPA circa 1996 with CAPA (pre ALPA integration) and APA following suit. UALPA had a deal with AirWisc. and I think NWALPA with Mesaba, they were limited, but after 1996 it was a free-for-all.

Been a year since a I flew kerosine. Two year since ATA. I know a lot of guys on the street. Know a lot of guys flying overseas, a couple in the sandbox as civi-contractors. ALPA doesn't have a say who gets hired when. Why? With my time and experience, but lack of recency I probably won't see an airline cockpit, other than a regional, until the next "pilot shortage." The RJ wunderkind will get there first.

 

[27 driver]

In theory, yes.

In reality. Come on... really? No... really? Tell that to the hundreds of UAL express carrier pilots who end up on the street IF CAL is able to hold onto their Scope provisions (and I see no reason for them NOT to hold onto them, since the CAL pilots can nix the entire deal if they don't like it - and I don't know too many CAL pilots who DO like the merger idea to begin with, BEFORE even discussing Scope).

Lear,

This sounds cold but if there is going to be furloughs I would prefer it at the regional level. I would rather see more mainline jobs and tighter scope then further erosion of this industry with lower wage regional jobs. It is a lot easier to replace a 25K a year job. I truly hope the new CAL/United can hang onto their tight scope and keep the flying in-house. The routes will be flown if there is a market for them. Lets fly them at mainline wages.

On another note: 25 minutes and counting. tick tock tick tock

 

[27 driver]

Similar thought process in having 1st year CAL pilots make sub $30K. Afterall, they'll make it up when they are in the left seat some day.

How much does a first year regional pilot make. I bet it is less.