What has ALPA done for me lately?

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Gee, Rez

Looks like it's not all sunshine and puppies....

Yep, mama never said it life is easy but when you grow up and sit at the adult table it is not all sunshine.

You've consistently have had two choices:

1. Be a professional and sit at the table with labor, govt, management and industry and address complex problems working together (sometimes) to find solutions.

2. Be a child and be told what, where, when, how and why to act. Be spoken to but not be afforded the right to speak and represent yourself. In other words... sunshine and puppies.


While you've been told you operate in the realm of #1, you can use the process of elimination to figure out reality. (let me know if you need a hint)

 

[CFIT]

Rez, Do you sit at the same table with Timmy?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

CFIT.... what is your position on the issues?

What are the issues?

 

[JoeMerchant]

CFIT.... what is your position on the issues?

What are the issues?

ALPA can't even deal with it's own issues...There is still a conflict of interest issue between regional and mainline members of ALPA. Maybe if ALPA could resolve some it's internal issues, more people would see some value in ALPA...Until then, most of us see ALPA for what it is.

 

[ualdriver]

Until then, most of us see ALPA for what it is.

......said the ALPA pilot who brags about his six figure salary and 18 days off a month flying a 50 seat RJ..........

I hope that if I ever end up at an ALPA regional that ALPA "fails" me as badly as it "failed" you......

 

[Lear70]

......said the ALPA pilot who brags about his six figure salary and 18 days off a month flying a 50 seat RJ..........

I hope that if I ever end up at an ALPA regional that ALPA "fails" me as badly as it "failed" you......

You *DO* realize that he's the EXTREME exception,,, NOT the norm at a Regional carrier at that salary and days off,,, right?

ALPA has its uses, although it's not the cure-all that many pilots want it to be. It's imperfect, and Scope issues are one of the imperfections.

To make this career better, when UAL and CAL combine, it's perhaps one of the most important Scope battles of this decade: to keep CAL Scope restrictions in place. Unfortunately, that will come at the expense of the regional carrier feed at UAL. You'd furlough hundreds of CoEx pilots in the process.

Again, ALPA can't fix that problem. To properly represent the mainline ALPA pilots and keep Scope they have to screw the regional ALPA pilots. Can't have it both ways on this one...

As for me, I'll take ALPA, warts and all. Better than a free-for-all union melee going on out there.

 

[ualdriver]

You *DO* realize that he's the EXTREME exception,,, NOT the norm at a Regional carrier at that salary and days off,,, right?

What I realize is that one of the loudest critics of ALPA on this forum is also one of the guys who seems to have a pretty sweet ALPA pilot gig- or at least that what he tells us all.

I am very aware of regional airline compensation levels. I am also very aware of the history that led to the massive growth of this sector of the industry. I am also aware of the importance of scope and our up and coming contract integration.

Having said that, hopefully you and others realize that it is extremely unlikely that billions of dollars worth of 70 seat RJ's are suddenly going to be parked in the desert due to our contract integration. Both the CAL pilots and UAL pilots are going to want the best of both contracts, with CAL scope obviously being the best. How that wide canyon is crossed during negotiations with a management team that wants to have Mesa fly our 747-400's is going to be difficult and likely some sort of compromise.

 

[PCL_128]

Again, ALPA can't fix that problem. To properly represent the mainline ALPA pilots and keep Scope they have to screw the regional ALPA pilots. Can't have it both ways on this one...

I completely disagree. It isn't "screwing" the regional pilots to hold on to scope at the mainline level. It provides upward movement for the regional pilots that want to move on to mainline (which is most regional pilots), and it provides upward pressure on wages for the guys that don't want to leave.

 

[Lear70]

I completely disagree. It isn't "screwing" the regional pilots to hold on to scope at the mainline level. It provides upward movement for the regional pilots that want to move on to mainline (which is most regional pilots), and it provides upward pressure on wages for the guys that don't want to leave.

In theory, yes.

In reality. Come on... really? No... really? Tell that to the hundreds of UAL express carrier pilots who end up on the street IF CAL is able to hold onto their Scope provisions (and I see no reason for them NOT to hold onto them, since the CAL pilots can nix the entire deal if they don't like it - and I don't know too many CAL pilots who DO like the merger idea to begin with, BEFORE even discussing Scope).

In reality, IF those jets get parked, or even a fraction of them, even if CAL were able to negotiate a reverse "jets for jobs", whereby the parking of those planes leads to the GUARANTEED hiring of those UAL express pilots... WHEN all the UAL and CAL furloughees are back and WHEN the combined carrier starts hiring again (not soon), you'll see a massive job loss for those Express pilots in what is, arguably, the worst hiring environment our industry has ever seen (more than 4,000 ATP rated pilots furloughed, some permanently as carriers went out of business).

So yes, in theory, better scope means more mainline jobs. Eventually. Someday. When all the major airline furloughees are back to work (maybe this upturn... MAYBE in another 5-7 years at the NEXT upturn). Until then,,, it'll suck for the guys at the bottom of the Express carriers lists. Just a harsh reality.

But then again, I've always said the "fix" to our industry will be bloody, painful, and will occur only at the expense of jobs which will put a lot of people out of work until we get this whole bloody mess that the previous generation left us straightened out. I'd like to kick whoever originally signed off on ANY jet flying being outsourced squarely in the nuts.

That, by the way, is a rhetorical statement... in case our friends down in Orlando are reading today.

 

[jonjuan]

I completely disagree. It isn't "screwing" the regional pilots to hold on to scope at the mainline level. It provides upward movement for the regional pilots that want to move on to mainline (which is most regional pilots), and it provides upward pressure on wages for the guys that don't want to leave.

Similar thought process in having 1st year CAL pilots make sub $30K. Afterall, they'll make it up when they are in the left seat some day.

 

[PCL_128]

Similar thought process in having 1st year CAL pilots make sub $30K. Afterall, they'll make it up when they are in the left seat some day.

That isn't analogous at all, actually.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Alabim, Alabao, Alabimbomba, ALPA, ALPA Rah Rah RaaaaaaH!

You girls look so cute waving your pom poms

 

[HalinTexas]

I'd like to kick whoever originally signed off on ANY jet flying being outsourced squarely in the nuts.

That would be DALPA circa 1996 with CAPA (pre ALPA integration) and APA following suit. UALPA had a deal with AirWisc. and I think NWALPA with Mesaba, they were limited, but after 1996 it was a free-for-all.

Been a year since a I flew kerosine. Two year since ATA. I know a lot of guys on the street. Know a lot of guys flying overseas, a couple in the sandbox as civi-contractors. ALPA doesn't have a say who gets hired when. Why? With my time and experience, but lack of recency I probably won't see an airline cockpit, other than a regional, until the next "pilot shortage." The RJ wunderkind will get there first.

 

[27 driver]

In theory, yes.

In reality. Come on... really? No... really? Tell that to the hundreds of UAL express carrier pilots who end up on the street IF CAL is able to hold onto their Scope provisions (and I see no reason for them NOT to hold onto them, since the CAL pilots can nix the entire deal if they don't like it - and I don't know too many CAL pilots who DO like the merger idea to begin with, BEFORE even discussing Scope).

Lear,

This sounds cold but if there is going to be furloughs I would prefer it at the regional level. I would rather see more mainline jobs and tighter scope then further erosion of this industry with lower wage regional jobs. It is a lot easier to replace a 25K a year job. I truly hope the new CAL/United can hang onto their tight scope and keep the flying in-house. The routes will be flown if there is a market for them. Lets fly them at mainline wages.

On another note: 25 minutes and counting. tick tock tick tock

 

[27 driver]

Similar thought process in having 1st year CAL pilots make sub $30K. Afterall, they'll make it up when they are in the left seat some day.

How much does a first year regional pilot make. I bet it is less.