What has ALPA done for me lately?

[HAL]

People like Rush Limbaugh (the de facto leader of the republican party?), Ann Coulter and Glenn Beck have poisoned our society. All in the name of ratings.

Spot on, Dan Roman. I think we've come to a point in our industry (and culture) where the "I've got mine and screw you" attitude has reached epic proportions. Do the people who bash ALPA here really think that it is the fault of the union that they are out of a job? Have they forgotten that it was bad business decisions that placed them on the streets, not bad union decisions?

By their very nature unions can not do all that much for members who are out of a job, other than offering things such as job search help, and advice on how to handle being furloughed. The primary job of unions is to protect and improve the rights and work conditions of employees, not furloughees.

Hate - whether it comes from political TV pundits, union bashers, or airline management - will do nothing but diminish the lives, livelihoods, and prospects of everyone involved. It may grab attention, but it does nothing towards improving a situation.

HAL

 

[spitfire1500]

Spot on, Dan Roman. I think we've come to a point in our industry (and culture) where the "I've got mine and screw you" attitude has reached epic proportions. Do the people who bash ALPA here really think that it is the fault of the union that they are out of a job? Have they forgotten that it was bad business decisions that placed them on the streets, not bad union decisions?



HAL

....you seem to of forgotten about union decisions concerning scope that allowed outsourcing of RJ's from mainline carriers.

 

[PCL_128]

....you seem to of forgotten about union decisions concerning scope that allowed outsourcing of RJ's from mainline carriers.

I think you mean pilot decisions concerning scope, since every single pilot group got a chance to vote yay or nay on those agreements.

 

[Remington]

Alpa sucks donkey!

 

[Turtle21]

The cabatoge win is huge..... but how can one quantify that?

Surely one could express their joy and affection by sending a sizable personal check to their object of affection... or better yet you could arm-twist others to demonstrate personal sacrifice so as to fawn over the exalted and special.. what do they say about the best form of flattery.

 

[bluesideup340]

I think you mean pilot decisions concerning scope, since every single pilot group got a chance to vote yay or nay on those agreements.

Ok if ALPA is not responisble for any of the things that went wrong in the last 30 years. Why do we need ALPA?
If ALPA postures as the solution for the problem they have to lead and with leadership comes responsibilty. And with that comes accountablility for things that are good and those that are bad.
PCL you can not have it both ways.
If ALPA wants to lead, then lead and be responisble otherwise get out of the way. We need ideas and leadership -- no more of these snake oil sales pitches.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Ok if ALPA is not responisble for any of the things that went wrong in the last 30 years. Why do we need ALPA?
If ALPA postures as the solution for the problem they have to lead and with leadership comes responsibilty. And with that comes accountablility for things that are good and those that are bad.
PCL you can not have it both ways.
If ALPA wants to lead, then lead and be responisble otherwise get out of the way. We need ideas and leadership -- no more of these snake oil sales pitches.

What is being said is... look in the mirror..... Germans shruging their shoulders saying we didn't know doesn't work.....

 

[Turtle21]

What is being said is... look in the mirror..... Germans shruging their shoulders saying we didn't know doesn't work.....

You are right! We looked in the mirror and finally recognized that it was ALPA elite that had yanked our shorts to our ankles and wouldn't take their foot off..

...so we threw the gauntlet down... they doubled down by supplanting our free ability to choose our own elected reps... in the middle of a freaking representational election... so they all got replaced and they lost $12 million of our dues. Buh, bye..

April 17th. love it. Celebrate it. Celebrate the mirror!

 

[bluesideup340]

What is being said is... look in the mirror..... Germans shruging their shoulders saying we didn't know doesn't work.....

Rez get your history straight.
If the Germans would have paid attention they never would have elected the NSDAP in the first place.
Furthermore, it was after the Reichstag Fire in Feb. 1933 that Hitler consolidated all power as chancellor and president and as a result free speech and the expression of opposing ideas became unlawful.
Shortly thereafter opposition leaders were imprisoned.
Yes, the Germans are to blame for allowing the NSDAP to gain unrestrained power.
The Germans bought into the Nazi propaganda, in their defense they did not have much of historical data on the NSDAP to go by.

Pilots on the other hand have plenty history of failure, lack of foresight, and mismanagement by ALPA at least in the last 30 years. Unfortunately, ALPA and its cheerleaders (including you and PCL) suffer from the inability to accept any responsibility for what happened under the watch of the association.

Now I know you are talking about, and I give you credit for it, to change ALPA from within. Great - but the first step to improvement is the acceptance of responsibility for failures in the past. Why wasting time in fixing something that shows now sign of readiness for fixing?

 

[Vne]

Depends on what you mean by "ALPA." If you're talking about the people in Herndon, NO. If you're talking about the MEC members at PCL, YES.

And there is the true dysfunction of ALPA as a labor organization.
If its good its National
If its bad its "local".....

That IS the problem with ALPA.


The Airline industry de-regulated in 1978.
The Labor component in the industry has failed to de-regulate.

What IS needed is a NATIONAL standard for wages and benefits.
Let National set the standard. Either all managements pay or nobody plays....

Labor in this unregulated industry is hamstrung by the RLA and National feathers its nest at the expense of its members while management gets rich. Its the MEC's fault that the profession is so poorly compensated....BS

 

[bluesideup340]

Oh, let us not forget the conclusion of the German story. The NSDAP was removed from power by force. In case of ALPA the course of nature will take care of it.
I believe it was Charles Darwin who summed it up with the following observation: “It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change”

ALPA's inablity to innovate in response to the economimic changes of the past 30 year will naturally bring about its demise. It is nature - simple as that.

So, I guess if history teaches us anything we have only two choices here. It is either an evolution or a revolution.