What happened to the thread about the grinch?

[doh]

I have the benefit of knowing club personally. He is right in what we are experiencing at Flexjet. I know some of you don't like hearing that. I don't like it much myself, but Flex pilots do not believe it will get worse. It takes the facts of what we have lost to make an impact.

 

[Club ORD FO]

Pro union arguments I support:

- Do you feel you are adequately paid? Do you think the large cabin pay is industry average or better? How do you feel about the red label pilots being paid significantly more than regular line pilots who do the same job? Do you think that if we bargain as a group we can achieve better pay?
- How do you fee about out of seniority upgrades and transfers that have happened and continue to happen?
- How do you feel about out of seniority furloughs? Have you seen the proposal by the company that gives added protection to red label pilots?
- Speaking of furlough, would you like to have recall rights or just preferential hiring?
- Have you ever felt pressured to fly tired or to break an FAA or FOM rule? Would you be more confident in your decision making if you knew that you had union support if you ever got called into the office?
- With the numerous changes that have been made, would you have liked to had a say in the details? PTO time, vacation, bonus structure...
- Would you like to have scope protection in the event of a sale or merger of the company?
- Do you feel that you are able to speak out mind or ask questions without fear of punishment (on yammer for example)?

All of that can be backed up with what has happened or is happening. This is the type of stuff pilots grumble about in the cockpit. Not "oh man I'm gonna lose flexbid even though all signs point to that not happening. Or "They're all liars in general and non specific ways and are out to get us."

 

[shanes123]

Don't support the union I could careless. I am not pro union I am pro pilot. Something flex pilots are not. ( VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE ANYWAY) but your Flex bid is going BYE BYE. And when it does I will be on here laughing in your faces like I have at everything else you guys have lost. And only because everyone of you flex guys have been told and warned but continue down your own self destructing path. As far as red label he is doing a 8/6 if you look at their metrics they have to make the only way to make full bonus is a 8/6 or worse you will never get full bonus on a 8/7, 7/7 and sure as hell not on Flex bid. But again believe what you like. But when I'm LMFAO when Flexbid goes and you all are crying like a bunch of little baby B$tches. Don't blame the union, don't blame the arbitrator don't even blame KR. Blame yourselves.

 

[Club ORD FO]

Again, not correct. The domestic label pays a bonus if you average 6 days on or more. You can work as few as 4. I'm not sure about the international red label but I know they tend to work longer rotations. They way the structured that whole deal is not very attractive in my opinion.

And you should care about other pilots supporting the union. Solidarity is important. It's partly how netjets is continually able to get an industry leading contract.

 

[shanes123]

It pays a bone us. Not the full bone us. Whatever keep your head wherever you keep it. Good luck with that. And I will be ROFLMAO when your little world of rainbows and cupcakes comes crashing down. Bah bye suckers

 

[doh]

Club, this is their version of South Park Timmy. It's best to just let it go.

 

[Bjtdrvr]

. It's partly how netjets is continually able to get an industry leading contract.

MOSTLY !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[shanes123]

That's right professionals sticking together as professionals. Again MOST flex guys need a dictionary for that word also. But then they wouldn't understand it anyway or refuse to understand it. Very frustrating. But it is what it is. As I look for greener pastures I will take comfort in watching these guys that think their getting a hand up over another pilot crash n burn KARMA IS A B.

 

[dime line]

Club ORD FO;2544301]If he wants 8/6, then why isn't he doing that now on red label?

UNION, that is why

 

[doh]

Sans IBT, this would be a fiasco.

 

[Imissmypilot]

Club, that's all fine and good but I truly think your extreme overwhelming desire to keep Flexbid is clouding your judgement.

My understanding is the contract section the company submitted for arbitration regarding schedules contained no provisions for Flexbid. That's your proof coupled with the fact Kenn is a known liar. Therefore it is reasonable to state there is a real possibility Flexbid will go away. Arbritration tends to favor simplicity and the 7/7 is simple.

If we had better union support that caused/forced the company to negotiate in good faith perhaps it would be a different story. The only ones to blame will be the exact same guys who will be bitching about what we lose.

Your only hope, and I mean only hope, right now is in the union making a solid case against the company both in Federal court and in arbitration.

In other words, your only hope is this union protecting the pilots despite themselves.

Am I hopeful? I have reason to be but until I see some on our leadership actually show something close to self sacrificing service I am skeptical.

Options has great solidarity. I have to believe that it is leadership driven. When are we going to realize at Flexjet we need to pay attention to integrity? I'm not even asking for a change but admit you ********************ed us for your personal gain and move on.

It's a catch 22. We will never get to the point of selecting our own leadership with our current leadership in charge. How can I support someone 100 places junior to me making twice as much as me but asking me to sacrifice either dues or the job protection anonymity affords?

And that is why the company didn't negotiate. They knew they didn't have to.

 

[Club ORD FO]

As far as I know the company has not submitted an official proposal for schedules. It's not posted on the VUH briefing room board, and in the court filing the company made last month they listed the dates of all the proposals they have submitted so far, and "schedules" was blank. So it's possible they have submitted it in the past couple of weeks but I have not heard anything about it.

If they do indeed make a proposal that doesn't include Flexbid I'll add it to my list of reasons to support the union. My point is I don't like arguments based solely on speculating about how bad things might get.

 

[Imissmypilot]

As far as I know the company has not submitted an official proposal for schedules. It's not posted on the VUH briefing room board, and in the court filing the company made last month they listed the dates of all the proposals they have submitted so far, and "schedules" was blank. So it's possible they have submitted it in the past couple of weeks but I have not heard anything about it.

If they do indeed make a proposal that doesn't include Flexbid I'll add it to my list of reasons to support the union. My point is I don't like arguments based solely on speculating about how bad things might get.

A.) You and I have heard different things. I believe the only section they havent submitted was pay. But as in that case too, it's the exclusion that speaks volumes along with Ricci's personal preference of an 8/6 based solely on the verbally documented fact he has an aversion to airline and hotel costs no matter how much business sense it makes in gained profit on the back end.

B.) I don't disagree with the sentiment but I tell you I personally wish I would have listened to the "fearmongering" sooner instead of being conned by the mere appearance of "rational" thinking. Now I realize all of the calls for "calm" was essentially smooth PR talk by gullible (including myself) wishful thinkers because every single ********************ing thing the union people has predicted has born fruit.

Additionally, I heard a little management bird recently admitted after one too many there is no way to prove the success of red label because the accounting isn't actually seperated and it's all a sham.

But we already knew that. Only red label contracts are being sold. You and I are flying those same customers, trips and metal. You are naive if you didn't realize the only thing seperate about red label are the pay scales. Not the revenue, not the owners. And that should have you incensed. By the way, you know what I hate most about flying Red Label airframes? They have turned into the crappiest metal on the line. Interesting. Why do you think that is?

Why don't you be a brave soldier and request the documentation regardinv red label success. Kenn is on record in his book and lectures he is favor or releasing all documents regarding how people's pay and bonuses are factored. He believes it's motovating. Good luck. It's lack is very telling.

 

[Club ORD FO]

I do miss the days of knowing exactly how many airplanes we have sold and who the new owners are. We get a lot less communication these days. Only vague "sales is dong great" type stuff. And then we furlough.

 

[shanes123]

We were told sales are great when the place was getting ready to close the doors before Raytheon saved us. Only time sales weren't great was the last contract and that's cause that was negotiated not determined by a arbitrator

 

[dime line]

As far as I know the company has not submitted an official proposal for schedules. It's not posted on the VUH briefing room board, and in the court filing the company made last month they listed the dates of all the proposals they have submitted so far, and "schedules" was blank. So it's possible they have submitted it in the past couple of weeks but I have not heard anything about it.

If they do indeed make a proposal that doesn't include Flexbid I'll add it to my list of reasons to support the union. My point is I don't like arguments based solely on speculating about how bad things might get.


""My point is I don't like arguments based solely on speculating about how bad things might get.""


I was you 11 years ago

 

[NJAPLT]

Q


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