What Fractional?

[Cpt Splash]

What are you, 15? I guess to a teenager, the fact that Lears are "cool" would be the reason you would choose one company over another.

Good one, you got me

 

[gunfyter]

Thats funny NJA Capt lets turn this into a bash session shall we. .

Actually it was Capt Splash that fired the first shot:

It's funny how you don't see the Netjet, or FLOP guys responding to this thread. Actually I think the administrator of this board should create a Netjet bitch forum because that is all you see lately under the fractional board. Just my $.02.



​

He was also wrong. I was the very first to respond.

 

[Flybet3]

OK FOLKS! I didnt post this gouge for anyone to start bashing anyone!
I need advice guys! In the future I want to join a fractional, I dont want to work for a regional...major would be nice, but fractionals seem like a good career path. I'm 21 you guys, I really need some direction from experienced mature pilot! if I talk to guys with my experience and my age, all I hear is BULLSH!+ like got to pinchnickle, fly new jets. I want to fly for someone that will be worth for flying for a career choice. I dont think that a regional is for me....I need good advice, you guys have been doing this for a while.

 

[FarginDooshbahg]

Good one, you got me

All just good natured fun, Cpt.

 

[NJA Capt]

Here ya go Vixin, I even highlighted some of it for you. Sorry. You asked.

http://www.aviationnow.com/shownews/04nbaa/aircraft2_06.htm

"Concerning the leading fractional players, O'Neill said CitationShares and NetJets continued to show "significant growth" while FlexJet, a division of Bombardier Aerospace, and Flight Options, LLC, an affiliate of the Raytheon Company, did not. Citing data from leading investment bank, UBS, O'Neill said FlexJet is losing nearly two customers for every one that joins, while Flight Options is keeping pace one for one. Much of CitationShares' growth is coming from companies or individuals fed-up with flying aboard commercial airlines, he said."

 

[gunfyter]

OK,

My answer is go to the first one that hires you FIRST. You have a ways to go to meet minimum qualification. By the time that happens the situation at many of these companies will be very different.

You are young enough to switch sides. We have tons of people who moved over from Options or Flex.

NJA gives you the most variety of types to Fly. That will never be the case at the other 3.

NJA contract will be finished before you can apply. Effects of 91 K implimentation on all companies will pan out.

In my original post I thought you were asking about where to go TODAY. Today the fastest trip to the Left Seat is at CS... and also the best pay and schedule.

 

[hawkercpt]

As far as Options goes

We have to see if we can even survive this 135 transition. Moral is in the crapper. There are rumblings of another union drive starting. We are loosing guys and not hiring replacements. You want more specifics...PM me.

 

[Cpt Splash]

Here ya go Vixin, I even highlighted some of it for you. Sorry. You asked.

http://www.aviationnow.com/shownews/04nbaa/aircraft2_06.htm

"Concerning the leading fractional players, O'Neill said CitationShares and NetJets continued to show "significant growth" while FlexJet, a division of Bombardier Aerospace, and Flight Options, LLC, an affiliate of the Raytheon Company, did not. Citing data from leading investment bank, UBS, O'Neill said FlexJet is losing nearly two customers for every one that joins, while Flight Options is keeping pace one for one. Much of CitationShares' growth is coming from companies or individuals fed-up with flying aboard commercial airlines, he said."

So you take the word of the CEO of CS. I guess the president of the competition will always give accurate info. How old is that article anyway?

Bottomline: The kid is looking for a good fractional to work for. My suggestion was CS or Flex because they offer liveable wages. More people seem to complain about Netjets as opposed to like it. The new contract was voted down by what 86%. If any of those statements were true then we would have the fleet we currently have. I don't think flex ever had 120+ aircraft. We're growing and hiring. My advice is talk to the guys on the road and you will get the real story

 

[vixin]

I wont waste any more time on NJ CAPT. You are the typical NJ tool we all see here my dad is bigger then your dad. What is the definition of is. Like you said last fall. That is old news. Gunfyter you I respect, thanks for aswering that question for me. But I must say it was just his "opinion". NJ CAPT you give us that valued opinon of yours, almighty frac man. Like I said before I will give the good and the bad about FlexJet I am very honest about it. I know we all have our problems just stop the We are better then thou. I know we are better then no one, just the same as everyone. I say hi to all frac pilots. I could careless who you fly for or what. Lets just meet down stairs, hangar fly and have a beer maybe some BBQ.

Flybet3 just pick the one that gives you the best quality of life. Only you know what that is for you.

 

[LXJ31]

Here ya go Vixin, I even highlighted some of it for you. Sorry. You asked.

You're not sorry, why say so? A person with alot of character would have defused the situation in a good-natured fashion rather than continue the hijacking of another fractional thread into another Netjets rules/WarrenBuffet/BerkshireHathaway/ContractContractContract/8000pilots deal that, speaking strictly for myself, just don't have the energy for anymore. It was entertaining, then informative, then boring the first 500 times I've read these threads but I just don't/can't care about it. Its a frickin' echo chamber; the same 15-20 Netjets pilots (and can't forget The Wife) just waiting for an excuse to cheerlead or denigrate any aspect about Netjets, so long as you get to spam the board.

I know there is not a gun to my head forcing me to read your posts. I don't even click on the ones that begin "Netjets Domiciles" or "NetJets MEC" or "NetJets Company Softball Signups." But this one wasn't one of those.

This young man was looking for info into a possible career in this segment of aviation. What he found was Barnum and freakin' Bailey cramming ten clowns into a Volkswagen.

If I was him, I'd look at switching my major.

Its beer:30 and I was just released, so I'll be unavailable for a bit...

 

[Flybet3]

losing hope

This young man was looking for info into a possible career in this segment of aviation. What he found was Barnum and freakin' Bailey cramming ten clowns into a Volkswagen.

If I was him, I'd look at switching my major.

Hey boss, of course I wish I could fly for a major... Fed ex mostly.
I would love to fly for any one of these big guys, Fed Ex, UPS, SW, JB...but lets face it, there is so much competition out there...I feel like I might never make it to a major anymore. So many guys out of a job more qualified than me. Will any of the majors hire me lets say in two years once I have about 3000 to 3500 total and about 1500 turbine PIC while trying to compete with a 10k hour pilot with 4 heavy types.....give me sooome hope!!! but then again a BBJ or a Challanger 300 is nice.

 

[sky4]

Been with Options for over four years, lots of changes, but for the better! I have enjoyed every one I fly with and work with. Never no real problems. We have seen what works and what doesn't and I beleive the company is trying to make a turn for the better, money wise. This has been a great company, lots of changes going on but I do beleive things are for the better.

 

[NJA Capt]

You guys get way too emotional about things on this board. The fact of the matter is, if someone doesn't agree with you, you jump on them. When someone pushes back, you get mad and blame it on them. Are you in politics?

For the record, I too speak to every frac pilot I pass in the FBOs/hotels and I've had dinner with quite a number of Options and Flex crews. We all do the same job with a different tie. As I said in my first post, we ALL have our issues but there are a bunch of good guy/ladies at each company.

flybet3: Regardless of what you may see here, it really is a viable career. Take a look at each company's web site, talk to their pilots in the FBOs, and Google anything you can think of. Fly for Flex for the Bombardier products, CShares for the Cessna products, FO for Raytheon or NetJets for all of the above (except Bombardier

 

[Dr. B]

Citation Shares

How many planes and pilots does citation shares currently have, does anyone know? Are they still growing?

 

[Ultra Grump]

Which Fractional would you guys recommend if a pilot had to take that career path?

As anywhere in aviation, you go to the one that hires you. Put in your resumes/apps, and see what happens. Not many have the "choice" of where to go.

Good luck.

 

[Flybet3]

yep

As anywhere in aviation, you go to the one that hires you. Put in your resumes/apps, and see what happens. Not many have the "choice" of where to go.

Good luck.

Yeah I guess, thats how I got my current job.....but i definetly dont just apply anywhere nor do i take any job.

 

[NJA Capt]

So you take the word of the CEO of CS. I guess the president of the competition will always give accurate info.

Just to clarify, CS' CEO didn't compile the data. If you re-read the quote it says "Citing data from leading investment bank, UBS..."

To be more clear, it came from Aviation Week & Space Technology
10/06/2003, page 63. The last report came out at NBAA 2004.

 

[CE750Driver]

NJA Captain - you are wrong

Netjets has furloughed. In late 80's, when the pilots were paying for fuel with their personal credit cards. Furloughed about half the pilots if I remember correctly. Lasted about a year. Had 2 friends in that group. Neither came back. If they had they would be right around the mid 40's senority wise.

Scary how much most pilots here dont know about NJA.

 

[FracCapt]

better QOL? And yeah, I guess FLOPS and NET JETS must suck, b/c no one has responded yet.

Maybe it's because we're sick and tired of the stupid a$s questions that have been answered a million times if you just know how the search feature works....? Then again, maybe it's because we just don't give a sh!t...take your pick.

 

[Flybet3]

Ok

Maybe it's because we're sick and tired of the stupid a$s questions that have been answered a million times if you just know how the search feature works....? Then again, maybe it's because we just don't give a sh!t...take your pick.

Ok, if you dont give a sh!t than why are you answering you prick! secondly you are about 2 days late you slow f***. DIC

 

[hawkercpt]

OH Crap

Here we go again...

 

[buttercup]

This is like a bunch of ho's talking about which John is the best!! Fractionals aren't a place to hang your hat for a career.. I don't understand why some people in this industry can't be honest. They have to always try to justify the situation they are in. Reality hurts I guess!! If given the choice Citation Shares offers the quickest upgrade!!With a quicker upgrade comes more $$$$, faster!! Thenyou'll have more $$$ and more PIC time it's a win win!!! Steve Oneill is a standup guy too over at CS!! He has character and will grow CS te right way!! Good luck to you.

 

[FracCapt]

Ok, if you dont give a sh!t than why are you answering you prick! secondly you are about 2 days late you slow f***. DIC

With all that anger, you'll fit in well at a fractional.

2 days late....yea, well, some of us have a life outside of the internet...sorry about that..

 

[Diesel]

I vote for not giving a sh!t

 

[FR8FO]

How many planes and pilots does citation shares currently have, does anyone know? Are they still growing?

What's up penar? I'll call you in a few days

 

[Cpt Splash]

Just a little updated, accurate info



Rumors of our demise are greatly exaggerated.
http://www.wdbj7.com/Global/story.asp?S=2951302
DALLAS, Feb. 15 /PRNewswire/ -- Flexjet, the fractional business jet ownership program of Bombardier Aerospace, saw a strong rebound in aircraft sales and orders in 2004.

The company experienced a 32 percent increase in the sale of shares of Bombardier Learjet and Challenger aircraft in the 12-month period ending December 31, 2004 compared with the same period of the previous year. The month of December was also the strongest in sales Flexjet has seen in more than three years and transactions completed during the fourth quarter of 2004 were up more than 70 percent compared with the same period in 2003."

The new Bombardier Challenger 300 and Learjet 40 aircraft have given us a significant competitive advantage," said Michael McQuay, President, Bombardier Aircraft Services. "The response to these new aircraft is very positive and has contributed to our significant increase in sales and in orders booked," added Mr. McQuay.

The Bombardier Learjet 40 aircraft entered the Flexjet program in late January 2004. Four aircraft are now fully sold and the backlog continues to grow. "The market appeal, reliability and performance of the Learjet 40 exceeded our expectations," said Mr. McQuay.

The Flexjet Challenger 300 fleet has now grown to 10 aircraft and Flexjet has already booked orders for an additional seven aircraft."

The introduction of a Secondary Service Area that allows Flexjet owners to fly to and from the Caribbean region without incurring aircraft repositioning fees has contributed to our recent increase in sales and orders," stated Bob Knebel, Vice President, Sales, Bombardier Flexjet. "We continue to lead the industry in program innovation, flexibility and satisfaction. Our people, along with program enhancements such as Versatility Plus and Anytime Options, have been critical components in owner satisfaction," added Mr. Knebel.

A recent survey found that, on average, Flexjet owners rate their overall level of satisfaction at 90 percent. The professionalism of Flexjet flight crews was highest-rated at 99 percent.

About Flexjet

Established in 1995 and based in Dallas, Texas, Bombardier Flexjet offers a turnkey program allowing individuals or companies to purchase a share in a Bombardier business jet at a fraction of the full ownership cost. Flexjet owners select the most appropriate aircraft type for their needs, determine the number of hours per year they fly, and purchase shares of the Bombardier business jets starting at a share size of 1/16th (equal to 50 hours flying per year). Flexjet guarantees 24-hour access to its fleet with as little as six hours notice and can fly into 10 times the number of airports available to commercial flights, for maximum travel flexibility. Owners pay predictable monthly management and usage fees, while Bombardier Flexjet manages aircraft maintenance, flight crews, hangars, fuel and insurance on their behalf. Flexjet is the only fractional provider that fields an exclusive family of Bombardier business jets, including the Learjet 40 XR, Learjet 45 XR, Learjet 60, Challenger 300 and Challenger 604.

About Bombardier

A world-leading manufacturer of innovative transportation solutions, from regional aircraft and business jets to rail transportation equipment, Bombardier Inc. is a global corporation headquartered in Canada. Its revenues for the fiscal year ended Jan. 31, 2004 were $15.5 billion US and its shares are traded on the Toronto and Frankfurt stock exchanges (BBD and BBDd.F). News and information are available at http://www.bombardier.com/.

Bombardier, Learjet, Challenger and Flexjet are trademarks of Bombardier Inc. or its subsidiaries. For information George-Ann Rosenberg Bombardier Flexjet 202-887-1921 [email protected] http://www.flexjet.com/ http://www.bombardier.com/ CONTACT: George-Ann Rosenberg of Bombardier Flexjet, +1-202-887-1921, [email protected]eb site: http://www.skyjet.com/http://www.fl...bombardier.com/ Disclaimer: Information contained on this page is provided by companies featured through PR Newswire. PR Newswire, WorldNow and this Station cannot confirm the accuracy of this information and make no warranties or representations in connection therewith.
__________________
"I have harnessed the cosmic rays and caused them to operate a motive device."

 

[furlough-boy]

Hey boss, of course I wish I could fly for a major... Fed ex mostly.
I would love to fly for any one of these big guys, Fed Ex, UPS, SW, JB...but lets face it, there is so much competition out there...I feel like I might never make it to a major anymore. So many guys out of a job more qualified than me. Will any of the majors hire me lets say in two years once I have about 3000 to 3500 total and about 1500 turbine PIC while trying to compete with a 10k hour pilot with 4 heavy types.....give me sooome hope!!! but then again a BBJ or a Challanger 300 is nice.

You're only 21. Back in the late 90's the average guys getting hired at the majors were 32-33. Wasting your time if you're planning too far ahead in this industry.

 

[AA717driver]

You're only 21. Back in the late 90's the average guys getting hired at the majors were 32-33. Wasting your time if you're planning too far ahead in this industry.

Yeah, at 21, I was still chasing skirt and drunk 23 hours a day in college. That dude needs to pace himself. TC

 

[Captain Overs]

"Can't we all just get along" -R.K.

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

I wouldn't worry about it, you need to have ATP minimums for any fractional gig. If you are 21, you don't meet the mins. Guess you'll have two more years to think about it.

For what it's worth, avoid Options like the plague. Maybe in two years, things will improve. For now, it's horrible. Good luck.