What Do You Want The ASA CNC To Do

[buscap]

While normally not one to beat a dead horse, I would like to make one more point about the paycut issue. For any 50 seat driver at ASA who thinks they will not be taking a paycut under the present matched language, consider this: Pay parody between the 50 and 70 equates to lopping off the entire top of the payscale. This is a paycut for ALL ASA pilots.

You may not be on the 70 today, and you may have plans to move on to another company. But remember, we are all one speeding ticket, DUI, traffic accident, divorce, family tragedy, or personal illness, away from being stuck at ASA.

We can be bought off on this pay issue, but it would take drastic quality-of-life, scope, commuter clause, and workrule improvements to do it. I have not seen a single proposed tradeoff which would even come close to justifying a paycut at a profitable company.

Unguaranteed promises of growth are not a good trade for paycuts.

The threat of asset transfer and whipsaw is not a good reason to take a paycut. It is a good reason to go on strike. It is a good reason to stand strong and do everyrthing in our power to make ASA the best airline we can.

 

[ASADriver]

ASA Driver,

Fistr off, thanks to you and ASACRJDRIVER for keeping this relatively high-brow. With that said, I would like to point out that the company's most recent proposal is a paycut for me, now on the 50 seater and in the future on the 70, when the combined total of the cuts are added up. We're talking about Deadhead pay, underblock, etc. And further, the company has NOT proposed letting us in on the incentive program or proposed profit sharing. AT least I haven't seen it in writing.

I will not accept a paycut while working for a profitable company.

And I do not believe I am living in the past. The contract transgessions are a fact of life today. The contract we are working under right now is in many ways substandard to the one we actually ratified last time, due to the company's success in a few key arbitrations and reinterpretations of schedueling sections.

The whipsaw recently implemented makes standing strong even more important. We are actually lucky the whipsaw is being utilized while we are so close to a contract endgame. At least we will soon have the option of conducting self help.

If we do not get a tighter contract with real scope and without paycuts, this job will not be worth having. And I for one want this job. I love this job. Flying blue-hairs all over the southeast tickles me to death...really...it does. I want this job so much, I am willing to cause great financial harm to the company to keep this job. I will hopefully go on strike in such a manner and time, which does not allow the company to recover from the financial strain.

If they are able to replace my services and stay in business, then so be it. Apparently this profitable company wants a paycut and quality of life decrease from me so much, they are willing to take the exact same company-destroying gamble as I.

Maybe I'll see you on the picket line and unemployment office. But I would rather fly with you, as part of a successful, profitable airline which treats employees and customers with respect.

We are profitable right now, but as is currently being proposed, I don't believe that would continue. I also think there is too much confusing about what is currently on the table. To be making this decision without ALL of the facts is wrong regardless of which side you are on. Why can't we see everything. I don't believe DH is 50% anymore. I also don't see the longevity being done away with. I also don't see the 10-25% paycuts that some of the "burn the place down" guys are saying. Debating this on he said/ she said doesn't cut it.

 

[ASADriver]

I think you are a troll that is bored at the GO. If you are not I challenge you to do the following:

1. Call your Reps
2. Call a P2P

It is that simple. Pick up your phone and dial the number. The are all listed on the ALPA website. Do it right now and ask your questions in person.

This is a waste of our time though because you won't do it.

If you are not a mgt troll (and I beleive you are) then you are probably too stupid to find the number and make a simple call and get your question answered.

Apparently you think flightinfo is the place to get your questions answered. As such, you are destined to remain with your head buried deeply in your rectum.

Believe what you like but base it on facts.

Then go ahead and answer it on the ALPA site. Send me an ALPA blastmail. Do something other than tell me to call P2P or a rep. Everytime you say talk to P2P I think of the Davinci Code and secret societys. I've gotten different answers from different p2p people. I've also talked to the ATL FO rep. and capt. rep. The capt. rep. seems pretty rational, but to be honest the FO rep. doesn't impress as someone I want making these decisions for me.

 

[ASADriver]

I tell as many people as I can as a P2P rep. Guess you are not talking to the right people.

Underblock pay has not been in the companies proposal and they want nothing to do with min day or rigs to help replace it.

I will pass that question on to the MEC and CNC for you.

Go Around, you actually do answer questions and don't attack. However I have gotten different answers from different P2P reps. It seems like the information from P2P differs based on how "hard core" they are. For example, some P2P seem to really want to go on strike - they are more negative about what is happening then the P2P who are more reasonable. Pass that up the chain of command. Information - not preaching.

Also I can't get honest answers on DH pay and lack of longevity bumps in the current company proposal.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Then go ahead and answer it on the ALPA site. Send me an ALPA blastmail. Do something other than tell me to call P2P or a rep. Everytime you say talk to P2P I think of the Davinci Code and secret societys. I've gotten different answers from different p2p people. I've also talked to the ATL FO rep. and capt. rep. The capt. rep. seems pretty rational, but to be honest the FO rep. doesn't impress as someone I want making these decisions for me.

You should take this concern to your MEC rep if you actually want it addressed. Whining here won't get you anywhere.

And since YOU'RE the one now attacking people, what's wrong with our FO rep? He may be a bigmouth, but at least he VOLUNTEERS his time for the pilot group. Maybe we need someone willing to stand up and fight. His position opens next spring... feel free to run. What have you done to improve the situation lately?

 

[ASADriver]

You should take this concern to your MEC rep if you actually want it addressed. Whining here won't get you anywhere.

And since YOU'RE the one now attacking people, what's wrong with our FO rep? He may be a bigmouth, but at least he VOLUNTEERS his time for the pilot group. Maybe we need someone willing to stand up and fight. His position opens next spring... feel free to run. What have you done to improve the situation lately?

We don't need bigmouths, we need rational intelligent people.

 

[John Pennekamp]

We don't need bigmouths, we need rational intelligent people.

Another useless personal attack. What have you done for our pilot group lately? I bet you don't even really know the person you're complaining about. Get to know him... every person has several sides. At least he's willing to stand up for us. Good intentions, but often poor execution. Aside from that, if you get to know him, he's not a bad guy.

 

[ASADriver]

Another useless personal attack. What have you done for our pilot group lately? I bet you don't even really know the person you're complaining about. Get to know him... every person has several sides. At least he's willing to stand up for us. Good intentions, but often poor execution. Aside from that, if you get to know him, he's not a bad guy.

I only used "bigmouth" because that is what you used. Your the one who called him a "bigmouth". I don't care if he "isn't a bad guy". He may be great to drink beer with, but I don't want him making decisions that will affect my career.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I only used "bigmouth" because that is what you used. Your the one who called him a "bigmouth". I don't care if he "isn't a bad guy". He may be great to drink beer with, but I don't want him making decisions that will affect my career.

So run for his office and you'll get to make the decisions... if you think you have the support of our pilot group.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Then go ahead and answer it on the ALPA site. Send me an ALPA blastmail. Do something other than tell me to call P2P or a rep. Everytime you say talk to P2P I think of the Davinci Code and secret societys. I've gotten different answers from different p2p people. I've also talked to the ATL FO rep. and capt. rep. The capt. rep. seems pretty rational, but to be honest the FO rep. doesn't impress as someone I want making these decisions for me.

I don't think ALPA can blast mail non seniority list employees who work at the GO. If you want any credibility, go on the ALPA boards indentify yourself and spreak your mind.

Shy of that you are just stirring the pot.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Then go ahead and answer it on the ALPA site. Send me an ALPA blastmail. Do something other than tell me to call P2P or a rep. Everytime you say talk to P2P I think of the Davinci Code and secret societys. I've gotten different answers from different p2p people. I've also talked to the ATL FO rep. and capt. rep. The capt. rep. seems pretty rational, but to be honest the FO rep. doesn't impress as someone I want making these decisions for me.

I guess it is your contention that they are deceicing you as well. As part of this master ALPA conspiricy to ruin your loving relationship with your benevolent management that has our best interest at heart.

Is that correct????

 

[ASADriver]

I don't think ALPA can blast mail non seniority list employees who work at the GO. If you want any credibility, go on the ALPA boards indentify yourself and spreak your mind.

Shy of that you are just stirring the pot.

And put my name out there to get dragged thru the mud. I don't think so. If you question ALPA, you are attacked. If you think I am just stirring the pot, then put me on ignore.

 

[John Pennekamp]

And put my name out there to get dragged thru the mud. I don't think so. If you question ALPA, you are attacked. If you think I am just stirring the pot, then put me on ignore.

Copout...

 

[Pogue Mahone]

So run for his office and you'll get to make the decisions... if you think you have the support of our pilot group.

GO employeees can't run for an ALPA office. You need to be a seniority list pilot.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Copout...

Yes indeed.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

And put my name out there to get dragged thru the mud. I don't think so. If you question ALPA, you are attacked. If you think I am just stirring the pot, then put me on ignore.

If you believed your own bullsh1t you would stand up and be counted. If you believe in something put your name behind and let people know where you stand.

That's what really makes you a coward.

 

[John Pennekamp]

If you believed your own bullsh1t you would stand up and be counted. If you believe in something put your name behind and let people know where you stand.

That's what really makes you a coward.

Well said. He'll drag WF (his FO rep) through the mud, but won't go there himself. At least WF publicly stands up for what he believes in.

 

[ASAFLY2]

I like it Sinca. I would add the profit sharing though so that the guys on the 70 would get a little extra. And with the profit margins ASA has, we definitely want in on that action!

We need to get back to the table to start the clock on us getting a 30 day cooling off period. The mediator will not come back to the table until one side makes a meaningful proposal. If we come back with 70 seat rates at current book and Skywest plus 2 percent on the 50/ATR plus retro, the company will still not accept it, but the mediator will see which side is stonewalling. If you believe CT's letter, the 700's and 900's are pretty much gone. If we are going to be a 50 seat airline, lets be the best paid with good work rules.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

We don't need bigmouths, we need rational intelligent people.

You think that MEC and CNC are not "rational intelligent people"?

Based on what?

 

[ASADriver]

You think that MEC and CNC are not "rational intelligent people"?

Based on what?

We were talking about the FO rep. No I don't think he is. Some are some aren't. When you talk to them you can tell which ones are and which ones aren't. But the context of my comment was directed at the FO rep.- not all of them.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

We were talking about the FO rep. No I don't think he is. Some are some aren't. When you talk to them you can tell which ones are and which ones aren't. But the context of my comment was directed at the FO rep.- not all of them.

I see.

If you think that most are rational and intelligent, why do you think they would mislead you in some conspiratorial attempt to put the company out of business?

 

[ASADriver]

If you believed your own bullsh1t you would stand up and be counted. If you believe in something put your name behind and let people know where you stand.

That's what really makes you a coward.

I don't see your name either - does that make you a coward. You will tell me you are worried about the company finding out. I am worried about the union finding out. We are both anonymous and you are deflecting the issue.

 

[John Pennekamp]

We were talking about the FO rep. No I don't think he is. Some are some aren't. When you talk to them you can tell which ones are and which ones aren't. But the context of my comment was directed at the FO rep.- not all of them.

So what qualifies him as irrational an uninteligent exept you not liking him? Have you approached him and shared your concerns?

More mud slinging and union rep bashing... Poage Mahone is not the coward.

 

[ASADriver]

I see.

If you think that most are rational and intelligent, why do you think they would mislead you in some conspiratorial attempt to put the company out of business?

I believe that they think they are doing what is best. I think they believe that Jerry is bluffing and that we can get him to give in and give us everything we are asking for and we will still grow. I think they are trying to rally the troops as a strategic move and if that means "spinning" some info. then they will do what they feel is best. I don't think they are trying to put the company out of business, but I am afraid that there actions may do that. Everyside spins information, thats why I want to see the proposals in black and white so I can make up my mind without spin from either side. It's my future and I don't think that is too much to ask.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Plenty of folks know who I am. You would be hard pressed to say that I don't put my name behind what I believe.

Nice try though.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I believe that they think they are doing what is best. I think they believe that Jerry is bluffing and that we can get him to give in and give us everything we are asking for and we will still grow. I think they are trying to rally the troops as a strategic move and if that means "spinning" some info. then they will do what they feel is best. I don't think they are trying to put the company out of business, but I am afraid that there actions may do that. Everyside spins information, thats why I want to see the proposals in black and white so I can make up my mind without spin from either side. It's my future and I don't think that is too much to ask.

Personally, I could care less if Jerry is bluffing.

This is not a game to me. It is an equation.

There is a bottom line to what I believe is fair compensation and QOL for the services I provide the company.

My bottom line is well above what ASA is proposing right now.

I am terribly pragmatic and form my opinion based on facts that I gather for myself. I don't think it gets any simpler than that.

What I don't do is sit on FlightInfo and whine and piss and cry about not being spoon fed "black and white" proposals from the people I elected to look out for my interests in the first place.

If you don't trust the MEC, grow balls and start a recall and elect Lynn and John and that Finklestein kid. Then you can call Bryan and tell him you are ready for your paycut.

Psssst. If you propose low enough payrates he might over you the 787.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Personally, I could care less if Jerry is bluffing.

This is not a game to me. It is an equation.

There is a bottom line to what I believe is fair compensation and QOL for the services I provide the company.

My bottom line is well above what ASA is proposing right now.

I am terribly pragmatic and form my opinion based on facts that I gather for myself. I don't think it gets any simpler than that.

What I don't do is sit on FlightInfo and whine and piss and cry about not being spoon fed "black and white" proposals from the people I elected to look out for my interests in the first place.

If you don't trust the MEC, grow balls and start a recall and elect Lynn and John and that Finklestein kid. Then you can call Bryan and tell him you are ready for your paycut.

Psssst. If you propose low enough payrates he might over you the 787.

Well put. I think that just about sums it up.

I think we're just arguing with a bored crew scheduler anyhow...

 

[atrdriver]

ATR, that is all that I want, for the line guy/gals to make an informed decision.

Well, then you need to get informed, because the information that you are basing these posts on is incorrect.

 

[atrdriver]

It seems like the information from P2P differs based on how "hard core" they are. For example, some P2P seem to really want to go on strike - they are more negative about what is happening then the P2P who are more reasonable.

Let's get one thing straight. The last thing that I want to do is strike. I have been on both sides of a strike in the past, and both sides suck. But you better believe that I am going to pass on the correct information so people can make up their minds based on facts. That is the point of P2P. The reason that some are more negative is because they know what the facts are, and the facts suck. And while I don't want to strike, I will if that is what it takes. And there is no one to blame for that except ASA management.

 

[atrdriver]

And put my name out there to get dragged thru the mud. I don't think so. If you question ALPA, you are attacked. If you think I am just stirring the pot, then put me on ignore.

I often have opinions that contradict ALPA. And I post them on the ALPA boards. No one drags my name through the mud. And many that frequent both boards know who I am here as well. Again, no personal attacks. If you are really an ASA pilot in good standing, then voice your opinions on the ALPA board. I guarantee that the MEC reads the boards, and take all opinions into consideration.