What Do You Want The ASA CNC To Do

[JoeMerchant]

FDJ2 and Irishman,
I want to INCLUDE the skywest pilots in scope that INCLUDES both pilot groups. That is the main difference between what fins and myself advocate vs. what the mainline MECs advocate. If you do not INCLUDE the other groups, they will work against you. FDJ2 I guess you haven't figured that out yet, but I am working against you because you have chosen to use scope against me.

 

[Bizjet]

I want our CNC to get realistic regarding the market wages for CRJ700/900 flying. We can "rah rah" all we want, but in the end, the Company has an alternative, we don't.

This is the direct result of ALPA's failed scope policy that I've been debating on this board for years. We need to focus on locking up Skywest in decent scope language and once we have the flying locked up, then we can go back to work on pay rates.

When our mainline brothers have underbid us for larger airplanes and we have 6 other DCI carriers in and out of ATL, our negotiating leverage is gone.

I hate Charlie Tutt's memo. None the less, it is the truth. If we hold out we are going to be a vanishing airlin..

What happened to you?!!! Did you go over to JOE's and drink the kool-aide? What a flip flop? Repeat after me. I Fins have been a bad boy. I am allowing JoeMerchant to post under my screen name. Geeezzz!

 

[JoeMerchant]

What happened to you?!!! Did you go over to JOE's and drink the kool-aide? What a flip flop? Repeat after me. I Fins have been a bad boy. I am allowing JoeMerchant to post under my screen name. Geeezzz!

Sorry BIZJET, but many ASA pilots are beginning to question ALPA's moves. Many of them realize that our local ALPA people are trying, but they also realize that maybe we need to rethink our objectives. As hard as it may be for you to believe, many ASA pilots like their jobs, feel extremely lucky to have been purchased by SKYW, and want to grow rather than shrink. Many pilots realize that shrinking will have a negative affect on their pay and QOL.

 

[Bizjet]

Sorry BIZJET, but many ASA pilots are beginning to question ALPA's moves. Many of them realize that our local ALPA people are trying, but they also realize that maybe we need to rethink our objectives. As hard as it may be for you to believe, many ASA pilots like their jobs, feel extremely lucky to have been purchased by SKYW, and want to grow rather than shrink. Many pilots realize that shrinking will have a negative affect on their pay and QOL.

With your numerous post on this subject is your only solution to throw in the towel. After all you like to brag that you will not be silenced, that you like to challenge authority, that you can think for yourself, that you blame ALPA for all your professional misery, and on and on. Why have you become such a frightened little bunny? It makes me wonder whose side you are really on. I think you have crossed over.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Fins-

You argue that Delta hurt your career by scoping airplanes out of one side of your mouth; followed by pushing for scoping out the Skywest pilots out of the other side of your mouth. You cannot have it both ways. We need to unite with Skywest pilots, not scope them. I believe that was what FDJ2 was referring to. One of those pot meet kettle kind of things. Don't you agree?

 

[FDJ2]

FDJ2 and Irishman,
I want to INCLUDE the skywest pilots in scope that INCLUDES both pilot groups.

But then it's ok to exclude everyone else? The hypocrisy of the RJDC. Merchant, according to your lawsuit it would be illegal to "exclude" others. So why don't you try again, and come up with some scope language that doesn't exclude. Good luck.

 

[FDJ2]

I'm not at all against the Skywest pilots joining us. That is the difference between your scope agenda and mine. I would like to see all Skywest flying done by Skywest pilots. Skywest management should not be able to whipsaw us.

Fins, the problem is you and your RJDC buddies think it is illegal to force Skywest into such a contract. You support a lawsuit that would prohibit any ALPA pilot group from negotiating the type of scope you are referring to. The RJDC would argue that you have no right to prevent Skywest from outsourcing flying to other pilot groups since you, the pilots, do not own the flying and should not be allowed to scope the jobs away from others.

 

[FDJ2]

Are you nuts? How is pushing for a "merger" predatory? How is binding our employer to taking pilots with the airplanes as the airplanes predatory?et a little bigger raise next time and enjoy a better return on his stock.

So other than the merger you already have all the iron clad scope you dream of. That is if all you are asking for is scope that binds your employer into taking the pilots with the airplanes. Ofcourse, according to you and the RJDC, the employer should be allowed to outsource Skywest flying to other pilots, so long as they use their own airplanes. So in the end all Skywest has to do is move airplanes around, since according to you and the RJDC, Skywest should be allowed to contract any additional growth with another carrier who might actually do the flying for less, while they dump your aircaft. But it's o.k., because the new contractor uses his own aircraft. Is that right Fins? After all, it is the RJDC mantra that no pilot group can own the flying.

 

[No Delay]

Want:
1. Duty Rigs
2. Small raise across the board
3. Min. 12 days off.


Willing to give:
1. Dual qualified
2. Single pay rate (if it comes with a small pay raise)

 

[ASARJMan]

Sorry BIZJET, but many ASA pilots are beginning to question ALPA's moves. Many of them realize that our local ALPA people are trying, but they also realize that maybe we need to rethink our objectives. As hard as it may be for you to believe, many ASA pilots like their jobs, feel extremely lucky to have been purchased by SKYW, and want to grow rather than shrink. Many pilots realize that shrinking will have a negative affect on their pay and QOL.

Yeah, sure Joey. You and your older girlfriend, and all the screen names you have on here huh. What's that come up to. Let's see, maybe 4 or 5. The ASA ALPA board is running about 98% in favor of standing up to this company. What's funny is, if the majority was in favor of bending over for ASA, you'd be doing the opposite, crying for a strike. I refer to you as "Dickey Opposite".

 

[blueridge71]

I dont want them to do anything! Everything will be fine ladies

How is it that you can be on the seniority list at Chataco, Comair, and ASA? Did I miss any?

You are full of it.

 

[blueridge71]

The ASA ALPA board is running about 98% in favor of standing up to this company.

I'm a yes vote, but you have to admit that the ASA ALPA board is probably not the best place to get a fair and accurate reading on the opinions of ASA pilots. I have no doubt that we are 90+% in favor, probably more with CT's letter.

 

[HoserASA]

I'm a yes vote, but you have to admit that the ASA ALPA board is probably not the best place to get a fair and accurate reading on the opinions of ASA pilots. I have no doubt that we are 90+% in favor, probably more with CT's letter.

Yes, you're correct. But it does tell you that there are some very PO'd pilots at ASA. Tutt's letter convinced a few who were on the 'fence' to decide which way to vote on the strike issue. Remember, if we do go out and ASA ceases to exist, ASA management is out of a job too. Of course, most of them are retired DAL execs, so they have that going on.

Hoser

 

[D'Angelo]

Always remember the angriest people usually get on the internet. Why do you think the people in the middle get attacked so much on here? For the most part the internet is a tool for the angry union droids to voice their opinion. Is an internet board an actual representation of the real world? Absolutely not. If it was everyone would know who go-jets was, jumpseat denials would be a daily thing, the word whore and management prick would be dropped daily, no open time would ever be picked up to "punish the companies". Luckily there are actually a lot of people that disagree with alpa and their motives. There is a better way. It just angers the old school die hards that times are changing.

 

[737 Pylt]

I'm so glad I can't read dumb angelo's drivel. Let me guess. He's spouting about union thugs and hiding behind a computer keyboard!
How Einstein/Limp Lizard/Boris Yellingish of you!
737

 

[shamrock]

Tutt's letter convinced a few who were on the 'fence' to decide which way to vote on the strike issue.

This is what amazes me about our (mis)management. They don't seem to realize that their actions are galvanizing the pilot group against them, or so it seems from my unscientific observations.

I've never really felt strongly one way or another about Unions, but the stupidity I've seen in 4 years from our management has pushed me over the line and done a more effective job of turning the pilot group against the G.O. than any Union could ever do.

Sad thing is, our illustrious leaders seem to have no idea what effect their actions have, unless of course their ultimate goal is a ticked off pilot group, which is exactly what they seem to be getting.

 

[Tomct]

Cclit....maybe you just don't want to hear the truth! If you are tired of hearing what I have to say, then don't READ my POSTS!! Be happy living in the "Skywest Bubble" thinking that nothing can happen to you blah....blah....blah

Don't worry, JA will be along shortly and you guys will be taking a paycut!! Good Luck with THAT negotiation!

 

[ASADriver]

Don't worry, JA will be along shortly and you guys will be taking a paycut!! Good Luck with THAT negotiation!

ASA pilots will take a 100% paycut when our aircraft are taken, and even ALPA cant stop that. At least the SKYW guys will still have jobs.

 

[1x1]

I was talking to a SKYW captain the other day in SLC, and he and a bunch of his friends there are actually mad that they are getting the 900's and however many of our 70's. In addition he was one of 875 or so in there house he claims wanting to vote in ALPA. That is roughly 40% of there group - not enough - but a start.

At least there are some pilots at SKYW that can see the big picture of the whipsaw. I'm afraid though that with the sweetened deal the SKYW pilot group is now getting with the 700's and 900's, and all the associated upgrade awards too boot, that ALPA doesn't stand much of a chance there now.

Looks like SKYW is using our failing contract negotiations quite effectively to entice their pilots to resist unionization with new airplanes and squander all hopes of a unified pilot group.

Don't worry though SKYW boys and girls, when we are squashed into the corner and collecting food stamps in a year or 2, you'll be good and ready for that paycut that your management will force down your throat to "remain competitive". At least you'll have some sweet airplanes. Be careful what you wish for!

 

[79%N1]

ASA pilots will take a 100% paycut when our aircraft are taken, and even ALPA cant stop that. At least the SKYW guys will still have jobs.

OK driver, but is the answer to whore ourselves out and lower our rates so we can do it cheaper too? There has to be a point where this job, and all it entails, is no longer worth it, not to mention the abuse. I am an advocate that ALPA is asking a bit much on the 70 and that some compromises should be made. But, we are cheaper than Skywest overall, ASA is profitable under the current DCI agreement and there has been no mention of the rigs and profit sharing from management that Skywest pilots also enjoy. They are demanding we take a Mesa contract or they will spank us. It makes no sense at all. We could take this contract and still not see any airplanes and lose the ones we have. (See Comair) Well, if I'm going to be an FO for another 2-3 years, then I want to get a fair, deserving wage. I don't expect the one ALPA proposed, but my current rate, with the improved section 13, rigs and a profit sharing plan is acceptable to me, and is doable by this company. My sneaking suspicion is SKYW is doing away with us, and they will do that no matter what we do, and if the only way to save my job at ASA is to take a substandard contract and be the new whore of the industry, then this job is not worth it!!!!!!

 

[COOPERVANE]

79%

That is exactly how I feel. While I think Tutts memo was horribly engineered, and might have a ring of truth to it, I think JA's plan is to shrink us bit by bit. 50% of us quit!! Great! Problem solved!, no need to merge the lists. Want to join skywest? welcome aboard, and oh, by the way no alpa and start at the bottom.

If the only way to save my job is to take a cut then you can HAVE IT!

 

[ASADriver]

If this job isn't worth it for you guys, why don't you quit? Some of us don't think the same way. Your entitled to your opinion, but it seems like you want to take the rest of us with you. If I was as unhappy as you guys, I would go find another job.

 

[79%N1]

Because I shouldnt have to quit. I do like my job, and do like ASA. I am just at the point where this is the lowest I will do the job for, so I will stand up and fight for that or let it go away. Why don't you apply at Mesa or Skywest if you are so willing to work for less.

 

[ASADriver]

Because I shouldnt have to quit. I do like my job, and do like ASA. I am just at the point where this is the lowest I will do the job for, so I will stand up and fight for that or let it go away. Why don't you apply at Mesa or Skywest if you are so willing to work for less.

Either you like it or you don't - which is it? You will like it a lot more being paid as a captain, and that won't happen if we shrink. I'm not "willing to work for less". You aren't making any sense, why would I give up what I have to go start over at the bottom again. That just doesn't make any sense. The current offer on the table gives me a raise, plus I am still getting a longevity bump every year. Things just aren't as bad here as some of guys are trying to make it. If we start shrinking then things will get bad fast.

 

[buscap]

If this job isn't worth it for you guys, why don't you quit? Some of us don't think the same way. Your entitled to your opinion, but it seems like you want to take the rest of us with you. If I was as unhappy as you guys, I would go find another job.

ASA Driver,

One of the reasons to be a unionized workforce is this very situation. We have leverage to make things better at ASA. Leverage, which comes from our ability to collectively exercise self help. This leverage will be exercised if endorsed by a majority of the pilot group.

And yes, we would like to change the minds of those who disagree with what we believe are reasonable contract expectations. Please remember that the compensation, work rules, and quality of life we do have, are the result of unionized labor force actions. What do you think our working conditions would be without a union? And please remember, Skywest pilots have what they do, simply because the company desperately wants to keep a union off the property.

Being a part of a unionized workforce does have disadvantages. We may go on strike, even though you vote no. The choice is simple for those in such a situation. Strike or scab.

My goal is to make the choice simpler for you by convincing you to vote for a strike, if it comes to that. My personal decision right now is to vote for a strike, unless the company position changes.

Skywest is a profitable company. A profitable company which is asking us to take a paycut. They are not asking for a pay-freeze....they are asking for a paycut....while giving non-contract employees a pay-raise, via the incentive program.

My vote will be for a strike. I will vote to strike, hoping it forces the company to capitulate. That is the only legal leverage I have. If this job is not worth having for me, then my hope is that this job action will put ASA, Delta, and perhaps Skywest, out of business.

That threat is all we have.

 

[ASADriver]

Buscap,
I don't think we have as much leverage as the union thinks. We are part of a holding company that has a non-union part to it. We also have to bid on flying from many other carriers. I also have seen the current proposals and it looks to me like the union is being more unreasonable. I will not vote to shut this place down just because Jerry isn't giving into our unreasonable demands. I will be voting NO. My current job with the current company proposal is adequate. I'm not willing to risk my job. I wish those of you who hate here would leave rather than take the rest of us with you.

 

[buscap]

Buscap,
I don't think we have as much leverage as the union thinks. We are part of a holding company that has a non-union part to it. We also have to bid on flying from many other carriers. I also have seen the current proposals and it looks to me like the union is being more unreasonable. I will not vote to shut this place down just because Jerry isn't giving into our unreasonable demands. I will be voting NO. My current job with the current company proposal is adequate. I'm not willing to risk my job. I wish those of you who hate here would leave rather than take the rest of us with you.

I obviously disagree about the company proposal, but if and when we do go on strike, I will walk the line with you. That is all we can do.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Buscap,
I don't think we have as much leverage as the union thinks. We are part of a holding company that has a non-union part to it. We also have to bid on flying from many other carriers. I also have seen the current proposals and it looks to me like the union is being more unreasonable. I will not vote to shut this place down just because Jerry isn't giving into our unreasonable demands. I will be voting NO. My current job with the current company proposal is adequate. I'm not willing to risk my job. I wish those of you who hate here would leave rather than take the rest of us with you.

Unfortunately for you, you are in the minority. The data bears this out. I find it disturbing that you are happy with being treated "adequate".

The reality of the current table positions and open items is that the union is negotiating and the company is not. You understand the concept of the give and take of negotiation don't you. You really aren't that slow are you???

 

[ASADriver]

I obviously disagree about the company proposal, but if and when we do go on strike, I will walk the line with you. That is all we can do.

Why is that the only thing we can do? Because the union says so? Unions don't have a great track record right now. I have a good friend who was at Alleghany and he said he heard the same thing from ALPA. He saw the same thing there that he sees here. I also have a neighbor who is a Northwest mechanic. He went on strike like his union told him to. He ended up having to sell his house and his airplane. He said going on strike was the biggest mistake he ever made.

 

[ASADriver]

Unfortunately for you, you are in the minority. The data bears this out. I find it disturbing that you are happy with being treated "adequate".

The reality of the current table positions and open items is that the union is negotiating and the company is not. You understand the concept of the give and take of negotiation don't you. You really aren't that slow are you???

I prefer an adequate contract to no job. I don't think Jerry is going to negotiate much more. He will just bleed us dry and there isn't anything ALPA can do about that. The QOL improvements are already agreed to in the scheduling section - let's move on.