What Do You Look For?

[Joshrk22]

Alright, I've been flying with one guy for a few months now and I just recently went up with another instructor, but this is how it breaks down. Instructor 1 has thousands of hours, the older type, flys by the seat of the pants. Instructor 2 is younger, couple hundred hours or so, but tends to rely more on the gauges and not seat of the pants flying.

I recently went up with instructor 2 and noticed that there were very different characteristics between 1 & 2. 1 doesn't have me use the trim wheel, but he likes to fly tight traffic patterns (less than a half mile) in case of an emergency (smart thing to do I guess). 2 has me use the trim wheel, he has set airspeeds in the traffic pattern that he wants me to fly (although he wants a 800 ft TP?). I have about 10 flights now and 1 watches me go over the checklist, 2 walks me through it and it's incredibly thorough (almost to the point that I don't even get anytime of actual flying, let me add we are the only ones to fly this plane).

I have 11 hours now and I would think I would have soloed by now. 1 was going to let me solo at around 8 hours, but 2 is making me go through a checkride with him first before I'm allowed to solo. Now that I just started flying with 2, it's like I'm starting all over again. So now I'm switching back and forth between 1 and 2, because that's the only way I really get any steady time in.

Training with the Children's Air Patrol is nice for the pricetag ($50 an hour wet for a '97 172) but it's getting frustrating that I'm not progressing. My 17th birthday is in 6 weeks and I was looking forward to getting my PPL on it, but I'm not even close, and I started my lessons back in August!

So what do you look for in an instructor? Which one should I choose to do most of my flying with?

 

[The_Russian]

Please bear with me while I break this down.

Before we start, lets not forget this: Both instructors have good qualities which can help you in different ways.

Instructor 1 has thousands of hours, the older type, flys by the seat of the pants. Instructor 2 is younger, couple hundred hours or so, but tends to rely more on the gauges and not seat of the pants flying.

I would generally rely on the instructor with the most experience. However, the ones with the most experience tend to be "stuck in their ways". Flying by the seat of the pants is a very important skill to learn. To me, it helps me feel like I am part of the aircraft. This skill will help you adapt between different aircraft types and methods of flying in the future. On the other hand, flying by the gauges is very important. It is very important to remain within the limitations of the aircraft, procedures, and regulations. A good mix of both will give a pilot good situational awareness. You should take from both of them.

1 doesn't have me use the trim wheel, but he likes to fly tight traffic patterns (less than a half mile) in case of an emergency (smart thing to do I guess). 2 has me use the trim wheel, he has set airspeeds in the traffic pattern that he wants me to fly (although he wants a 800 ft TP?).

Does he not allow you to trim at all? You must be building big muscles! Seriously, he should allow you to trim for the desired airspeed. Flying a tight pattern is very good. Not only will it save you money and get you more touch and go's, but you will have a better chance of making it to the runway if the engine loses power.

Learn to use the runway instead of objects on the ground to determine your position. Remember, objects on the ground change at every airport. You should be able to use a trained eye to spot your position from the runway. The trained eye will develop once you become familiar with different runway sizes, slopes, and types. You can also use points on your specific aircraft to help you determine how far you should be from the runway.

Speeds in the traffic pattern teach disipline and aircraft control. Make sure you fly pre-determined airspeeds at all times in the pattern. Also, I would follow the AIM and fly the 1000ft. pattern. This will provide you with clear sight of the other aircraft in front of and behind you. And, the controller will assume that all piston driven aircraft will fly that altitude in a traffic pattern.

I have about 10 flights now and 1 watches me go over the checklist, 2 walks me through it and it's incredibly thorough (almost to the point that I don't even get anytime of actual flying, let me add we are the only ones to fly this plane).

Checklists are for checking. In the airlines, we do a massive amount of things at once, and then check them with the list. In a smaller plane, and at your level, you can do one thing at a time and follow it with an immediate check of the checklist. What does your older instructor have you do about this?

As for the younger guy, he should be doing this type of teaching prior to the flight. To go over the checklist, he should talk with you about it in the brief first. Then, he should go over the operation of the items in the expanded normal checklist in the POH while seated in the aircraft. Once he knows that you have an elevated level of understanding, then he should fly with you and let you flow thought the checklists. It would be acceptable for him to correct you on any mistakes at that time, however.

I have 11 hours now and I would think I would have soloed by now

Honestly, you should have.

1 was going to let me solo at around 8 hours, but 2 is making me go through a checkride with him first before I'm allowed to solo. Now that I just started flying with 2, it's like I'm starting all over again. So now I'm switching back and forth between 1 and 2, because that's the only way I really get any steady time in.

You should not have been switched to another primary instructor at such an early experience level. CAP is functioning under 61, correct? Did you switch for your own reasons, or were you forced into this? Young instructors generally have trust issues. They are unfamiliar with their teaching environment and this causes a lack of trust in themselves which is passed on to the student. I would reccommend at this time that you slide back to the first instructor for the pre-solo portion for your benefit.

Training with the Children's Air Patrol is nice for the pricetag ($50 an hour wet for a '97 172) but it's getting frustrating that I'm not progressing. My 17th birthday is in 6 weeks and I was looking forward to getting my PPL on it, but I'm not even close, and I started my lessons back in August!

CAP, huh? Give me a little more of an explanation of how their training program works. Is it all volunteer?

So what do you look for in an instructor? Which one should I choose to do most of my flying with?

Personally, I look for a good mix of both. I also think you should change instructors between every rating. This will help to "well round" you. You will gain different things from different people. You really don't have to worry about that right now, though. I would not reccommend changing instructors in the midst of a rating unless you have to.

Generally, I will take the more experienced instructor over the new guy. However, the new guy may have some good pointers for you, too. At this time, you should return to your first instructor. Such an early switch can cause confusion and frustration. The other guy trusts you and will solo you. You will benifit more from the first guy.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Number 2 is better for initial training. More rote stuff which you need to know BEFORE acquiring that "seat of the pants" stuff.

Number 1 will make you an aviator. You'll learn a lot of airmanship from this guy because of his experience.

 

[Joshrk22]

Thank you for the replies.

Yes CAP is Part 61, but they have a bunch of BS that has to be dealt with. For example, I have to fill out paperwork before every flight, and get a flight release. Instructor 2 makes me check the tire pressure before every flight, btw I thought they were filled with nitrogen... he has me filling them with regular air. To solo you have to take the FAA pre-solo written test, then a CAP written test, then take a checkride, just to freakin' solo! Also, you can't do any touch and goes, they aren't allowed. You must wear a CAP approved uniform, this includes combat boots, do you know how hard it is to maintain a smooth crab on final when you have boots on.

The reason I "switched" was because instructor 1 is out of town every so often so I don't want to stop because of that so I fly with instructor 2.

Instructor 1 is much more laid back and makes flying look easy and comfortable. Instructor 2 is more balls to the walls about flying, sometimes I just want to tell him to settle down. Personally, I feel more comfortable with instructor 1.

The flying styles of the two are almost like night and day.

Right now I'm just trying to get through my PPL as fast as possible and then on to my aerobatic training. I'm almost to the point of going to the local FBO and taking lessons.

 

[The_Russian]

Yes CAP is Part 61, but they have a bunch of BS that has to be dealt with. For example, I have to fill out paperwork before every flight, and get a flight release.

No problem! It's worth it to get to fly the plane.

Instructor 2 makes me check the tire pressure before every flight, btw I thought they were filled with nitrogen... he has me filling them with regular air.

I would definitely recommend pure nitrogen. However, everyone operates their fleet differently. You will find that most operators just use air to save time and money. Nothing wrong with checking the pressure, either. Just roll with the punches. You may just pick up some good habits from the "pressure Nazi". :laugh:

To solo you have to take the FAA pre-solo written test, then a CAP written test, then take a checkride, just to freakin' solo!

Talk about insurance. You sound like a sharp kid, I wouldn't worry about 'em.

Also, you can't do any touch and goes, they aren't allowed. You must wear a CAP approved uniform, this includes combat boots, do you know how hard it is to maintain a smooth crab on final when you have boots on.

Can you do stop and go's? I don't know wht the boot feel like, yet. I will next month! Most likely I will empathize with you then!

The reason I "switched" was because instructor 1 is out of town every so often so I don't want to stop because of that so I fly with instructor 2.

Instructor 1 is much more laid back and makes flying look easy and comfortable. Instructor 2 is more balls to the walls about flying, sometimes I just want to tell him to settle down. Personally, I feel more comfortable with instructor 1.

The flying styles of the two are almost like night and day.

In my honest opinion, stay with #1. How long will it be until he returns? Just be patient and study until he returns. Practice in the airplane on the ground if you get a chance. "Chair fly" all your proceedures and manuevers while you wait for him. This will help you stay sharp.

Right now I'm just trying to get through my PPL as fast as possible and then on to my aerobatic training. I'm almost to the point of going to the local FBO and taking lessons.

I don't know man, it sounds like you are getting a pretty sweet deal on that plane. You will spend twice as much over there. And, you will have to start all over again there too. Stick with it!

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Don't sweat not soloing at 11 hours. What you don't know is that there are 15 different required learning points an instructor has to cover with you before you solo and if you're going to do them right, 11 hours is pretty quick to solo. Nobody cares how many hours you have when you solo. I solo'd at 17-18 hours and bounced all three landings. It means nothing to me. I had students that solo'd at 15 hours and 30 hours. The 30 hour guy was very good. He just had the misfortune of always flying on days when the winds were 15 gust 25 in a Cessna 152. Tough winds for a learning scenario.

The #2 instructor is covering his bases with you and you'll be better off for it in the short and long run.

Mr. I.

 

[Joshrk22]

He comes back Feb. 11th, so I'm just going to wait it out. Thanks T_R!

 

[The_Russian]

Don't sweat not soloing at 11 hours. What you don't know is that there are 15 different required learning points an instructor has to cover with you before you solo and if you're going to do them right, 11 hours is pretty quick to solo. Nobody cares how many hours you have when you solo. I solo'd at 17-18 hours and bounced all three landings. It means nothing to me. I had students that solo'd at 15 hours and 30 hours. The 30 hour guy was very good. He just had the misfortune of always flying on days when the winds were 15 gust 25 in a Cessna 152. Tough winds for a learning scenario.

The #2 instructor is covering his bases with you and you'll be better off for it in the short and long run.

Mr. I.

I agree. I just don't think the change is good for him.

 

[The_Russian]

He comes back Feb. 11th, so I'm just going to wait it out. Thanks T_R!

No problem. Keep studying and remain proficient. Do you want to go into the military and fly there?

 

[Joshrk22]

Yes, I'm thinking of doing the ROTC thing. I want to attend UofM; I hear that det. 390 is great.