What are these students hearing?

[rvsm410]

With all the bad news around the country of lost jobs, bankruptcy and pay cuts, I find it very strange that the number of flight schools are on the rise, the number of students with there minds set on that golden airline job are at an al time high.

What are these flight schools telling these kids about there chances of an airline job and the lifestyle they are faced with?

They have to be marketing specialist, or non fiction writers to be able to over shadow, block out and otherwise convience people to spend tens of thousands of dollars to enter an industry in such trouble and so many qualified people on the street ahead of them....

To me, this is the starting point of the wage problems we see in the industry today. These schools flood the market with newly licensed pilots willing to work for anything just to get that first airline job...further they are brain washed into believing they will walk right up the ladder to flying progressively larger aircraft and 6 figure salaries....we all remember those days, and the band plays on to the same old tune....

If the supply of students were drying up because of deminishing school locations and the fore-knowledge that this is really not the place to make a career, then the wages "might" have a chance of improving over the next 10 years or so......our fellow grounded aviators might have a real shot of returning to the front office at a decent pay rate.....

A shortage of pilots in the future is what this industry needs, truth in advertising by the flight schools, and the industry about the state of employment, and the real job outlook for newbies just trying to live a dream which has died along time ago....

In my opinion, there has been recent talk about "Bad" flight schools, I think most are bad from the standpoint that they are selling a dream that does not exist anymore, its like playing the lottery except alot more expensive to these kids but more importantly to the thousands of current employees.

JMHO....

 

[mayday1]

So... you're saying, restrict opportunities for others to have a career in aviation, so pilots who are currently flying, or on furlough, can have better job security and pay? Get real.

I'm a pilot working on my commercial - through a local FBO. I enjoy my training, and get a tremendous sense of accomplishment and excitement from flying -- I suspect many other pilots feel the same way. I also have a corporate management job - making good money. I'm actively looking into making aviation the next career move for me - not because of the money, or the lack of job security, or the general unstable nature of the industry - but because life is too short for me to continue to sit in an office, send emails, play office politics, work with adults who act like children, etc. Money is important, and so is job stability, but if you have a passion for something, you should not waste any time trying to achieve that goal. Times are different than many years ago - by my parents own admission - they grew up in a different time. You went to school, got a job, worked hard, supported your family, saved money, and retired. You weren't supposed to "love" your job.

As for the flight schools - yes, they're expensive, and they have clever marketing departments. They're a business. Like any other business they exist for one reason - to make money. Do they teeter along ethical boundaries in terms of what they tell students, and what they can deliver - sure. But like anything else - buyer beware, and investigate ANYTHING you plop 50-75k down for (condo, car, education, flight school, etc.).

Just because aviation is running on hard times, you need to look beyond the traditional perspectives of a career (stability, money, security, etc.). People want more out of life.

 

[Birdstrike]

...These schools flood the market with newly licensed pilots willing to work for anything just to get that first airline job...further they are brain washed into believing they will walk right up the ladder to flying progressively larger aircraft and 6 figure salaries....we all remember those days, and the band plays on to the same old tune...

See VABB'S excellent post yesterday on the "Where Will It All End Thread" on the Majors board:

"...Oh cool, a jet!! $16K/yr?? O.K., sign me up!!!"

That sums it up pretty well.

I don't see any shortage of these kids, do you? I didn't have those opportunities when I was 19. If I did, I'm sure it would be pretty hard to resist because who's thinking 5 years down the road at that age?

 

[Pugh]

Don't believe every student thinks they are going to fly for a major right out the gate and that they are naive. The school I goto is not one of the big ones with promises of glory and riches. I knew I wanted to be a pilot but I didn't know how difficult it can be to make a living until I started doing the research when looking for a school. Even then, I still want to be a pilot. I'm sorry if this has in anyway affected your income, but it's the descision I have made.

Maybe in 40 years I will be nearing retirement and be able to discourage young whippersnappers from flying, but until then I'm going to enjoy learning to fly, eat ramen noodles, and whore myself out to a regional.

 

[100LL... Again!]

I still think a traveling "airline Reality 101" course sponsored by ALPA might go a long way to stemming a lot of the starry-eyed dreamers.

We send in a pilot who is tired, been on the roead for a week, and he tells them about all the divorces, alcohol, pregnant flight attendants, etc.

Most will instantly chance their major to accounting or dentitstry.

 

[wakeboard]

I'm twenty years old right now, and I'm going to make it to the majors. I'm not going to let comments like this deter my goals, and make me feel it isn't realistic. I have my mind set and I'm going to do whatever it takes to get there. I'm a marketing major right now (in case I lose my medical or want to start a business someday) and by the time I get out in two years thing will start to continuely get better in the aviation industry. I'm going to be flying for a regional when I'm 23 and fly for FedEx by 27.

 

[rvsm410]

Good for your Attitude! But

Hey, I hear you, most if not all of us have been there before you. It takes a certain type of Can Do spirit to get into this business and it sounds like you have it.

I'm just telling you the way things really are now, sure there will be jobs opening from time to time...but the competition and the politics are mountains that 99.9% will not make it over to make it to a major airline...

The Term Major airline is changing daily....just read, ask them questions...they will tell you, not just me...its all changing and with these changes will come hugh shifts of current employees with 15 to 2o years to retiring, they are now starting to fill the jobs at the regional carrier, yea the same jobs you believe you will be able to get and use as a stepping stone to the majors...Not going to happen...Fact

Todays regional Airlines are in reality the "Major" airlines of today and the future, they have more aircraft, more routes, and make more money the so called majors can make...ie USAIR, UA in Bankruptcy, possibly Delta soon. Just another Fact.

You and others like you will have to deal with very senior employees or very experienced employees on the open job market willing to or being forced to rebuild a career at a new airline...you will be at the end of a long long line to get interviewed let alone hired...fact

You and the others will by then have invested $25000 to possibly $80000 into your licenses and loans for school and will have little opportunity to repay them from this industry, even if you get hired you will never make more than $45000 a year during your first 5 years......Fact....

I am by no means on the top of any senority lists, and worry about job changes everyday, my resume is not to shabby either:

14,000+ hours of PIC, 11,000+ in heavy transport aircraft, Dispatcher for 6 years, BS degree...age 45.....know lots of people in the industry, especially at the legacy carriers...wrked for 3 airlines now....and yet I have NO chance of working for a major airline...none..nada....fact

So in reality, in the heat of the sunny day....armed with all this adverse news do you think you will manage to get hired by a major airline, or even a regional with all this to compete against????

Good luck Pal, but you really better do your homework on what the real facts are..in todays airline industry...Fact

 

[j-bird]

I really think it's great that some people get off on telling others that there stupid for doing something they've always wanted to do. Any dumb*** knows that aviation isn't what it used to be. But if someone wants something bad enough I think he/she can do anything they want. I'm just getting ready to start flight school myself. I'm also going to spend $50,000 doing it. It's going to be great. My dad fly's for the majors. I think if he thought it was such a bad investment, he would probably tell me so. So see you in the majors.

 

[VNugget]

I really think it's great that some people get off on telling others that there stupid for doing something they've always wanted to do.

Do you really thing that anyone is "getting off" on telling anything? Where did anyone call anyone stupid? Your perception is majorly warped.

I am also a kid just embarking on an aviation career, and I, for one, would like to THANK everyone here telling us the straight facts instead of a sugarcoated view, so we know what to really expect. It's bad to live in a fantasy world, and it's even worse to WANT to live in a fantasy world.

It's going to be great. My dad fly's for the majors. I think if he thought it was such a bad investment, he would probably tell me so. So see you in the majors.

Denial is not a river in Egypt.

 

[VNugget]

From the diary of a brand new regional FO: http://www.livejournal.com/users/pilotgoddess/42309.html