What are these students hearing?

[Lineup&wt]

Hey Rumple I just responded to something you wrote on another board. But Amen to what you said above, great time to get involved and reach for your dream.

 

[wakeboard]

Rumpletumbler gets the picture.

KeroseneSnorter,

How would you know? From statistics? My dad just interviewed a 28 year old, and my dad was hired at FedEx when he was 27. It is possible. The average age being hired at FedEx is 35, and that is because these guys joined the military and had a 10 year commitment - that is why the average age is so high. My dad is the one who helped my instructor get a interview at Pinnacle, but he now flies for Chataqwua (sp. again). My dad got his ATP on his 23 birthday with 2200 hours. He was a captain for People Express by the time he was 24 and hopped on with FedEx at 27. Some of you may have a bitter taste towards pilots who are younger than yourself and have figured out what they wanted to to early and are doing everything they can to make it happen. I'm 20 right now and by the time I graduate from school I will have my time and the industry will be on the rise again.

 

[bigD]

LOL...I think rumple was kidding, fellas.

 

[Lineup&wt]

Wakeboaord, sure you got a shot at the regionals, when your done with school probally before it. But i think its safe to say that the regionals are on the rise now. and the FedEx dreams, lets get real though. My roomate 26 going on 27 5000+ TT. Capt EMB 145 at CHQ and by great luck a CAPT on EMB 170. Tons of PIC jet time 2 or 3 types, extreme at this age some would say yes. Hopes of FedEx you bet, any time soon not hardly. You got six years make it happen, unless dad can get you on. Good for you. I not sure I would boost about your old man helping out with the Pinnacle interview, Not to hard to get one on your own.

 

[VNugget]

I hope you're trolling

Yes he was, now take a deep breath and laugh.

 

[rumpletumbler]

I hope you're trolling and aren't being serious. The days of seven figure, working 10 days a month, are over, except for those at the VERY top of the seniority list at a select few companies.

Pilot shortage? Are you out of your **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** mind? If there's such a pilot shortage, why do all the majors have THOUSANDS on the street? All you guys know is the BS all your pilot factory school shovel to pander to you guys. I know because I was there. Then you'll get out into the real world, see just how vicious the industry is, and realize that just having job security is better than an extra 20 grand a year....

I was just being silly. Here is a pretty good definition of a troll.

troll v.,n. To utter a posting on Usenet designed to attract predictable responses or flames. Derives from the phrase "trolling for newbies"; which in turn comes from mainstream "trolling";, a style of fishing in which one trails bait through a likely spot hoping for a bite.

(I like this part the best.

The well-constructed troll is a post that induces lots of newbies and flamers to make themselves look even more clueless than they already do, while subtly conveying to the more savvy and experienced that it is in fact a deliberate troll.

If you don't fall for the joke, you get to be in on it.

The following extract is from a broader expansion of the defining comments given above:

In Usenet usage, a troll is not a grumpy monster that lives beneath a bridge accosting passers-by, but rather a provocative posting to a newsgroup intended to produce a large volume of frivolous responses.

The content of a "troll posting generally falls into several areas. It may consist of an apparently foolish contradiction of common knowledge, a deliberately offensive insult to the readers of a newsgroup, or a broad request for trivial follow-up postings.

There are three reasons why people troll newsgroups:

People post such messages to get attention, to disrupt newsgroups, and simply to make trouble.

Career trollers tend for the latter two whilst the former is the mark of the clueless newbie and should be ignored.

 

[pilotyip]

Why you fly

Fly airplanes becasue you like to, if you are in it for the money, respect, etc you may be disappointed.

 

[bigD]

wakeboard - do yourself a favor and track down any post by Falcon Capt. Read his signature line. Think about it a bit, and start asking questions about your reasons for getting into this biz (as pilotyip said).

It's fine to be driven, and it's fine to have goals. But don't be that guy that spends his entire career looking forward to the next step. Not only are you setting yourself up for disappointment later, but you'll end up annoying everyone that flies with you.

 

[DesertFalcon]

Aviation is the land of cycles. First your up, and then your down!

You have a job one day, then the next your unemployed. I have been flying since the early 70's; I don't have enough room here to tell about all of the changes, I and others, have seen in the Aviation business.

For 35 years, I have been waiting for the projected pilot shortage!
Where is it? It almost happened in 1999 -2000.

I would suggest, the newbies to this industry be aware that most of your success in this career is pure persistence and a LOT of LUCK!

Don't believe the pilot shortage stuff. Never going to happen on any large scale.

And above all, don't be overly optimistic about this career; It is not what it seems to be.

Good Luck in your careers.

 

[mayday1]

Firstly, rvsm410... point taken. I understand you have experience in the aviation industry and are sharing your perspective. And while I think that it's informative, I would hope we stop short of flat out discouraging people from the profession. Hell, if I can't make it to the regionals, and I remain as a flight instructor, I'll still be satisfied that I tried. I'll have no regrets. My personal thoughts... 5 or 10 years from now I'd rather look back and know that I gave it my best shot, rather than still be sitting in an office staring at a computer screen wondering "what if"? And to me, becoming a CFI and living out a career in aviation instructing wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. These are my thoughts - not saying I would encourage someone heavily in debt, with a family to support, to borrow 75k and gamble their next career move.

I guess I also see other professions similar to aviation in terms of the investments involved (time, money), money making potential, security, stability, and likelihood of success...

Take the college kid who wants to become a doctor -- years of studying, medical school costs that far exceed the cost of getting your pilots certificates, and the dream that you'll be the next cardiac surgeon. There are many doctors around the country who are changing professions because they can't afford the malpractice insurance. Not to mention, the big bucks that doctors make usually take several to many years out of medical school to achieve (not to mention a tremendous commitment to developing knowledge, skills, abilities).

How about aspiring lawyers? The country is flooded with lawyers -- not exactly a sure path to riches and success being the next high powered courtroom attorney, or the corporate lawyer making big $$.

What about starting your own business? Many try, many fail.

People who have an artisitic side... what about their dreams of becoming an actor, tv star, etc. Very few make it, but LOTS try - because it's what they want to do with their life.

My point -- we shouldn't be discouraging people from going after their goals. I think discussions like this can help surface many considerations you need to have before making a professional pilot your career decision. But I think we should stop short of discouraging people from pursuing it.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

KeroseneSnorter,

How would you know? From statistics? My dad just interviewed a 28 year old, and my dad was hired at FedEx when he was 27. It is possible. The average age being hired at FedEx is 35, and that is because these guys joined the military and had a 10 year commitment - that is why the average age is so high. My dad is the one who helped my instructor get a interview at Pinnacle, but he now flies for Chataqwua (sp. again). My dad got his ATP on his 23 birthday with 2200 hours. He was a captain for People Express by the time he was 24 and hopped on with FedEx at 27. Some of you may have a bitter taste towards pilots who are younger than yourself and have figured out what they wanted to to early and are doing everything they can to make it happen. I'm 20 right now and by the time I graduate from school I will have my time and the industry will be on the rise again.

Ah yes, youth.

Please print your post that I quoted above and put in in a safe place.

In fifteen years remove it from it's storage place and read it.

I guarantee that you will want to slap yourself in the face 10 to 20 times.


P.S. It sounds like your dad joined Fedex back when they were a dippy little Falcon operator. So just to clarify, as your father will attest, it was just pure luck that he is where he is now. I once flew with a poor S.O.B. that left Fedex back when they only operated ragged out falcons for next to no money. He left for a much better job, Currently he is going down with the ship at USAir wishing he were still at Fedex. He would be #1 at Fedex had he stayed.

Crystal Ball? Nope, just luck......Some good, some bad.


By the way, you are 20 with only 350 hours? Whats your problem, I was pushing 600 or so by then......you better get on the ball there bub if you expect to have that 5000 TT that Fedex likes by 27!!

 

[mayday1]

DesertFalcon.. I agree with your quote below. I would also add that success applies to just about any avenue and career path people chose. Aviation is not unique in the fact that it has significant challenges, risks, etc. These exist in many other jobs, fields, etc. I have an MBA, manage a group of application developers, and are fighting off outsourcing to India with a whip and a chair.

"I would suggest, the newbies to this industry be aware that most of your success in this career is pure persistence and a LOT of LUCK!"

 

[Lineup&wt]

Mayday,
Your a low time pilot with the most positive attitude i've seen on this site. keep it up and don't let any of these bitter people stop you from you dreams and you'll make it far. take the advise given above put your post in a capsule and pull it out you flight case on your last flight at 60 while walking of whatever plane your flying for whatever company your working for and and pat yourself on your back.

 

[24/7]

Here is the reality. To many pilots not enough jobs. That may explain why I get up at 4:30 am to fly traffic for free. Take some free advise... invest your time and money in something lucrative, then buy your lancair 400 and fly when you want to....

 

[TRLpilot]

This thread seems to be a representation of the industry as a whole.

RSVM410 started with concern and caution about the flood of students and pilot mills that are painting rosey pictures. Immediately a young starry-eyed student evokes his optimism and desire to make it big.

A less emotional look at the thread shows experienced pilots that have been through it all and are still trying to make it through offer their wisdom of the industry. And the young guns continue to see the dream and listen to the kit darby types, I think it's called selective perception.

I haven't posted on here in awhile and I have been re-evaluating what I want to do with my life and a possible aviation career. I love flying and have always dreamed about it but recently the rosey glasses have been fading. Now I'm leaning more along the lines of 24/7's advice of buying a plane and enjoying it on my terms.

The facts are that the industry continues to skid out of control. If the majors somehow stay alive the thousands of furloughed pilots leave little opportunity. That situation has pushed the industry down at every level. Now new pilots aspire to work for a regional and minimum wage, what other career choice has any similarity?

It's simple economics 101 for me - supply and demand, and with more furloughs and more wet tickets everyday that does not create a positive graph.

I want to thank many of you on here for the advice over the last or so. I also want to say, and this may sound like an oxymoron, but don't give up your dreams if it means so much to you but proceed with a realistic expectation. Do it for the love of flying, not the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

 

[pilotyip]

Always be a demand

Flying is part of the transportation industry in the US. There will always be a demand for pilots. Pilots will still be able to make a respectable wage of $100K/yr after 10 years in the business. Some may see this as unacceptable and elect to pursue other careers, which may allow those who really want to fly to move into the profession. Alot of people may see these as slave wages, but I have never seen it and am very satisfied with my career.

 

[mayday1]

six figure incomes in any line of work don't come easy - most require some formal education, and most importantly dedication, commitment, hard work. 10 years to make 6 figures is probably about right - in many lines of work.

 

[24/7]

You’re right, there will always be a demand. But for now supply far exceeds the demand. Hence 15+ waiting list to instruct at the university I graduated from. I know guys who are still working at x-grocery store, waiting for their chance to instruct a year after graduation.

The banks have become very liberal in loaning cash to fly in the recent years, let’s put 2 and 2 together.