What about Colgan

[Dave Benjamin]

I know people who have gotten on at UAL with less than 100 hours ME. There are lots of them, and they are not all women.

If that is the case, why aren't UAL planes falling out of the sky because of the inexperienced pilots.

Guess what - hours don't mean jack... experience and quality of training is what counts.

I know someone who interned for UAL and got hired without his commercial ME rating and about 700TT. He was not a minority or disadvantaged person so don't even start down that road. Funny thing was several of the other interns working with him didn't even bother applying. Last I saw him which was a few years ago he was a 737 captain.
He was a graduate of a good public university with a strong aviation department.
The training at UAL I'm sure was excellent and is probably the reason that UA was able to integrate the low timers.

Hours do mean something. Experience and quality of training is fine and good but they are not substitutes for experience. Military pilots may not have an impressive amount of hours but their flying is very structured and they tend do be a very disciplined bunch of airmen. A big part of the total airmanship equation is discipline, along with skill and proficiency.

Colgan is another story. PFT is one of the main reasons for the disparity between mainline and regional pay. If they hire the guy with 65 ME hours solely on his merits that's great, but my view on PFT is pretty clear. There are plenty of well qualified furloughees out there and there is no reason for a guy with 65 hours of ME time to be taking that seat just because he happens to have 10 grand burnng a hole in his pocket.

 

[panampilot]

I heard the amount of 18 grand was thrown around for the Tab guys. Is that usual? Seems a little pricey to me. Oh wait, a dime sounds too pricey. Pricks.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

I just pulled the 10 grand figure off the top of my head. Back in early 90's most of the PFT jobs were 10 or 12 grand which was about what they paid for the first year. In some places they call that indentured servitude. I guess with inflation and suckers 18K might be the going rate..

 

[Riddlebratt]

Desiday who the F*** you think you are by telling someone to pay their dues first... I have worked my way through school as well as paying for all of my ratings thru the CFI. I'm just trying to find the most effective way to the airlines the shortest way possible. I have a family to support and cannot continue this CFI sh*t to much longer or I will definately be homeless. I left a job paying 3 times the amount of money that I will make at any regional airline for the first 3 years. But to get to where I want to be I need I need 500hrs twin-turbine PIC. If that means paying for training to get ahead of the next man then so be it.... If anyone has a problem with that then I will gladly do it the conventional way if you would send me half you check to support me and my family...If you cannot do that or help me make a good decision by giving me the info i asked for then (Kiss MY ASS) If I wanted to be insulted i could have went to many other places. Freightdog75 Tab Express is providing PFT in the 1900's and Regional Airline Academy is providing PFT for the Saab. It is very expensive camparing to the salary you will be paid the first few years.

 

[KATL8R26L]

the price

The price went up last month for colgan, the school, that i go tried to push the p[rogram for a fee of $24,000. dollars afetr offiering it to the instructors for 18,000.00

You have got to be kidding meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. if you are going to bend some one over at least give them a kiss.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

I'm just trying to find the most effective way to the airlines the shortest way possible. I have a family to support and cannot continue this CFI sh*t to much longer or I will definately be homeless.

Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.

You mentioned you had a job that paid 3 times as much as regional pay. Go back to it if that's what it takes to support the wife and kiddies.

Some of us are trying to make a living here. It doesn't get easier to negotiate better pay and work rules when people want to pay for the seat. You obviously view the regionals as a stepping stone. I've got news for you. You may be staying longer than you think.

 

[WhiteCloud]

I have worked my way through school as well as paying for all of my ratings thru the CFI. I'm just trying to find the most effective way to the airlines the shortest way possible.

As you can see all those qualifications you (and me and everyone else here) worked hard to get aren't worth $%&# to Colgan. The prices I've heard range from 16K to 24K. Get out your checkbook and bribe them.

 

[I.P. Freley]

>>>Amazing that people with that amount of time (65 multi) could even think of an airline job.<<<

There's a whole boatload of pilots (and by boatload I mean likely an ocean liner) who got their airline jobs at some very large regionals/nationals with less than that... It's called pencil-whipping.

I know of at least two pilots who forged more than half of the hundred hours or so it took them to be hired at a certain all-jet airline that was hiring the thousand-and-one types about five years ago. In other words, they actually had about forty or fifty, but never mind being ethical, right? It sure worked out to their advantage, they've been captains since 1998.

Not to mention the senior ***** captain, just shy of retirement, who suggested I forge time in my logbook to get a job.

Oh, my.

 

[210FR8DOG]

Desiday who the f*** you think you are by telling someone to pay their dues

...someone who IS paying their dues (3300 total)

I have worked my way through school...

...so has almost everyone on this board

paying for all of my ratings.....

...so has almost everyone on this board

I have a family...

...so do a LOT of people on this board

CFI sh*t.......homeless

you mean the same pay you'll be getting at the regionals because you're helping to drive the pay to the bottom by paying for a job?

3 times the money......

...go back to it and instruct on the side, DON'T PAY FOR JOBS!!!!!

500 hours twin-turbine PIC

...so do most of the people on this board

if that means paying for training......

...why do you think the regionals pay so low?!?!?!? Because people are willing to pay for jobs/interviews. If you have a business with employees who are willing to pay you to work there, are you going to pay them well anyway just because it's the right thing to do? Of course not. You're going to laugh all the way to the bank, before going out to your yacht, which is waiting in paradise harbor in Hawaii, etc.

ENOUGH SAID

 

[NJA Capt]

I know people who have gotten on at UAL with less than 100 hours ME. There are lots of them, and they are not all women.

Guess what - hours don't mean jack... experience and quality of training is what counts.

Sure they got hired.....and 99.9% of them flew the FE panel for a few thousand hours before they moved to the front right window seat. (6 years later)

Exactly how do you measure experience without hours? Have you ever met a person who was a straight A student, BA/BS/MA/PHD, but had the social skills of a rock? Sure you have. Just because you can pass the ATP or FEX written, it doesn't mean your ready/able/or deserving, a major airline post.

We've all paid our dues, and I'll never knock anyone for trying to advance themselves. But don't kid yourself, it is the hours of experience that count.

 

[Cardinal]

If that means paying for training to get ahead of the next man then so be it.... If anyone has a problem with that then I will gladly do it the conventional way if you would send me half you check to support me and my family...

YGBSMe....Did it occur to you before you embarked on this aviation career that your family's welfare just might be more important than flying a shiny jet? Now for the sake of "the children" you plan to whore yourself out. Let's analyze this.

You realize, of course, that you would be money ahead to sit on your couch for the next year and a half, after considering taxes and expenses on the road. So you aren't in the black for 18 months or so, and then you'll only be making a 20 or 30% premium over your CFI wages. Most of that margin, of course, would be eaten up by just the interest on 18,000 at 12% or so. Upgrade will be your only saving grace, an only then perhaps a year, perhaps five, would your standard of living appreciably increase over the pittance you live on right now.

The only way I could live on first year regional pay was by being comlpetely debt and commitment free. You don't have that option in this scenario. Go back to your old job, squirrel away half of your net pay, instruct to stay current, and go for a regional when you can do it without going bankrupt. You didn't do much planning the first time around, but the industry downturn has given you the opportunity to rectify your situation without a severe career penalty. Take that opportunity, instead of the job that I and others who met the mimimums applied for.

 

[BoeingBaller]

24

If you paid 24k for training do you know how long that would take to recover. You would be working for free your first two years. On res w 10 days off a month never see your kids stuck at a regional for at least 8 years. 4 of which you only made 20k at the most after taxes. 4 YEARS THATS WHAT IT WOULD TAKE TO MAKE 20K!!! after you paid that 24k. F*** that!!!!!!! guys think about it .. Soo not worth it!! not trying to bash anyone just think about it.

 

[Bluto]

Riddlebratt,
The mob has spoken. Nobody feels sorry for you. Get over yourself. I think it's downright cowardly to justify your selfish actions by pointing to your poor, dependent family. I do feel sorry for them, though. I imagine they believed you when you told them how quickly you'd be a highly-paid airline pilot. Hey, I've got a unique idea: Take responsibility for your actions. You give Riddle grads a bad name. Earn your job like most of us here did. Don't degrade yourself and the career further by paying for it.

 

[BRA]

I couldn't imagine paying to come here. Some people are paying to leave....the ones that leave before their year is up. Many of those are dodging paying though. And also we are in a pay freeze. SO the $20 an hour with zero per diem i am making first year will not increase anytime soon. Upgrade is at an absolute snails pace. I have been here a year, no sign of upgrade in sight...and unless more quit...no sign of it a year from now either. Then of course...and this is fact...they do not go just by senority here,, they go by who they like, and who they think deserves it. Warning: no union here. And should you ever upgrade, you make 28K as a captain of the beech. More for the saab. If you have the 18K, then this is a good fit for you.....but only if the company pays for your training.and you get to keep that 18K in the bank to cover all your rainy days you will have here. I am very glad to have this right now. But everyone here complains..and those are the ones that didn't pay. I couldn't imagine how dissatisfied the ones that pay will be.

 

[capt_zman]

I can't believe anyone would actually contemplate doing this. This isn't paying for a job, it's working for free. It's called slavery.

Come on people, God gave you a brain for a reason.