What about Colgan

[Dave Benjamin]

I'm just trying to find the most effective way to the airlines the shortest way possible. I have a family to support and cannot continue this CFI sh*t to much longer or I will definately be homeless.

Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.

You mentioned you had a job that paid 3 times as much as regional pay. Go back to it if that's what it takes to support the wife and kiddies.

Some of us are trying to make a living here. It doesn't get easier to negotiate better pay and work rules when people want to pay for the seat. You obviously view the regionals as a stepping stone. I've got news for you. You may be staying longer than you think.

 

[WhiteCloud]

I have worked my way through school as well as paying for all of my ratings thru the CFI. I'm just trying to find the most effective way to the airlines the shortest way possible.

As you can see all those qualifications you (and me and everyone else here) worked hard to get aren't worth $%&# to Colgan. The prices I've heard range from 16K to 24K. Get out your checkbook and bribe them.

 

[I.P. Freley]

>>>Amazing that people with that amount of time (65 multi) could even think of an airline job.<<<

There's a whole boatload of pilots (and by boatload I mean likely an ocean liner) who got their airline jobs at some very large regionals/nationals with less than that... It's called pencil-whipping.

I know of at least two pilots who forged more than half of the hundred hours or so it took them to be hired at a certain all-jet airline that was hiring the thousand-and-one types about five years ago. In other words, they actually had about forty or fifty, but never mind being ethical, right? It sure worked out to their advantage, they've been captains since 1998.

Not to mention the senior ***** captain, just shy of retirement, who suggested I forge time in my logbook to get a job.

Oh, my.

 

[210FR8DOG]

Desiday who the f*** you think you are by telling someone to pay their dues

...someone who IS paying their dues (3300 total)

I have worked my way through school...

...so has almost everyone on this board

paying for all of my ratings.....

...so has almost everyone on this board

I have a family...

...so do a LOT of people on this board

CFI sh*t.......homeless

you mean the same pay you'll be getting at the regionals because you're helping to drive the pay to the bottom by paying for a job?

3 times the money......

...go back to it and instruct on the side, DON'T PAY FOR JOBS!!!!!

500 hours twin-turbine PIC

...so do most of the people on this board

if that means paying for training......

...why do you think the regionals pay so low?!?!?!? Because people are willing to pay for jobs/interviews. If you have a business with employees who are willing to pay you to work there, are you going to pay them well anyway just because it's the right thing to do? Of course not. You're going to laugh all the way to the bank, before going out to your yacht, which is waiting in paradise harbor in Hawaii, etc.

ENOUGH SAID

 

[NJA Capt]

I know people who have gotten on at UAL with less than 100 hours ME. There are lots of them, and they are not all women.

Guess what - hours don't mean jack... experience and quality of training is what counts.

Sure they got hired.....and 99.9% of them flew the FE panel for a few thousand hours before they moved to the front right window seat. (6 years later)

Exactly how do you measure experience without hours? Have you ever met a person who was a straight A student, BA/BS/MA/PHD, but had the social skills of a rock? Sure you have. Just because you can pass the ATP or FEX written, it doesn't mean your ready/able/or deserving, a major airline post.

We've all paid our dues, and I'll never knock anyone for trying to advance themselves. But don't kid yourself, it is the hours of experience that count.

 

[Cardinal]

If that means paying for training to get ahead of the next man then so be it.... If anyone has a problem with that then I will gladly do it the conventional way if you would send me half you check to support me and my family...

YGBSMe....Did it occur to you before you embarked on this aviation career that your family's welfare just might be more important than flying a shiny jet? Now for the sake of "the children" you plan to whore yourself out. Let's analyze this.

You realize, of course, that you would be money ahead to sit on your couch for the next year and a half, after considering taxes and expenses on the road. So you aren't in the black for 18 months or so, and then you'll only be making a 20 or 30% premium over your CFI wages. Most of that margin, of course, would be eaten up by just the interest on 18,000 at 12% or so. Upgrade will be your only saving grace, an only then perhaps a year, perhaps five, would your standard of living appreciably increase over the pittance you live on right now.

The only way I could live on first year regional pay was by being comlpetely debt and commitment free. You don't have that option in this scenario. Go back to your old job, squirrel away half of your net pay, instruct to stay current, and go for a regional when you can do it without going bankrupt. You didn't do much planning the first time around, but the industry downturn has given you the opportunity to rectify your situation without a severe career penalty. Take that opportunity, instead of the job that I and others who met the mimimums applied for.

 

[BoeingBaller]

24

If you paid 24k for training do you know how long that would take to recover. You would be working for free your first two years. On res w 10 days off a month never see your kids stuck at a regional for at least 8 years. 4 of which you only made 20k at the most after taxes. 4 YEARS THATS WHAT IT WOULD TAKE TO MAKE 20K!!! after you paid that 24k. F*** that!!!!!!! guys think about it .. Soo not worth it!! not trying to bash anyone just think about it.

 

[Bluto]

Riddlebratt,
The mob has spoken. Nobody feels sorry for you. Get over yourself. I think it's downright cowardly to justify your selfish actions by pointing to your poor, dependent family. I do feel sorry for them, though. I imagine they believed you when you told them how quickly you'd be a highly-paid airline pilot. Hey, I've got a unique idea: Take responsibility for your actions. You give Riddle grads a bad name. Earn your job like most of us here did. Don't degrade yourself and the career further by paying for it.

 

[BRA]

I couldn't imagine paying to come here. Some people are paying to leave....the ones that leave before their year is up. Many of those are dodging paying though. And also we are in a pay freeze. SO the $20 an hour with zero per diem i am making first year will not increase anytime soon. Upgrade is at an absolute snails pace. I have been here a year, no sign of upgrade in sight...and unless more quit...no sign of it a year from now either. Then of course...and this is fact...they do not go just by senority here,, they go by who they like, and who they think deserves it. Warning: no union here. And should you ever upgrade, you make 28K as a captain of the beech. More for the saab. If you have the 18K, then this is a good fit for you.....but only if the company pays for your training.and you get to keep that 18K in the bank to cover all your rainy days you will have here. I am very glad to have this right now. But everyone here complains..and those are the ones that didn't pay. I couldn't imagine how dissatisfied the ones that pay will be.

 

[capt_zman]

I can't believe anyone would actually contemplate doing this. This isn't paying for a job, it's working for free. It's called slavery.

Come on people, God gave you a brain for a reason.

 

[theskyking]

This is really disheartening to read this. People thinking of PFTing need to consider the long term consequenses. It sounds as if you are no longer a young man with years to burn. So it is understandable that you want to jump at what appears to be the fastest way to get an airline job. While not liking the idea of PFT, if this were pre 911 I could almost agree with you. The catch now is that the mainline seat that could make the whole investment worth while is most likely not going to be there at the end of this rainbow.

What you need to prepare yourself for is a career spent at a regional airline. If something better happens then great. But with the number of extremely qualified pilots beating the pavement right now, I wouldn't count on it.

So you have to ask yourself, what is best for my career? It seems to me that the money used for PFT could be better used to help make ends meet at home while you find yourself a position teaching or hauing checks and earning that experience that may someday save your arse.

I say all this because I am a struggling 1st year FO with a wife and 2 year old daughter. I work at an airline with great work rules, but one-way or another it's still first year pay. So in order to make ends meet, we are living with my wife's parents. Not quite where I thought I would be at 33 years old. And this is without having to pay all that money to PFT. Think this over carefully and don't let the salesman blow smoke at you. Earn your hours and go work for someone who values you as an employee.

Peace and good luck

 

[FlightTraker]

Ok.....my turn. Riddlebratt, BRA speaks the truth. I am about to finish my first year at Colgan. I am single with absolutely no debt, and most of the time am living paycheck to paycheck. The people that I know in next months Beech upgrade class have all been here a little over 2 years. So after you dig your 18K hole, don't plan on starting to fill it for at least 2 yrs. I might suggest to you what I did. For about 5K, instead of 18K, go get a aircraft dispatch certificate. Then apply as a dispatcher to the regionals, make somewhere between 23K-30K to start, have 12-15 days off to instruct or do other flying. The Chief Pilot usually hangs out in dispatch. Get to know the him and other pilots at the airline. Then you will have your foot in the door when hiring starts up again.

I don't think anyone here is trying to "bash" you, just help you. Everyone here has travelled the road you are about to take. It is just that right now is not the time to break into the industry and expect a fast track to a higher paying job. Alot of captains I fly with are furloughed major airline pilots with over 1000 people above them to get called back. It is going to be several years before these guys get called back, so when do you think you will have a chance? I think your obligation is to your family. Get a job that pays (which is hard for just about any industry right now) stay current, and build time, and keep the dream alive.

Good Luck!


FlightTraker

 

[dh82dvr]

I have to agree with this. I have been here over 3 years and I am paycheck to paycheck and need mywife to work too. I have gotten a lot out of this job but money is definately not it. Consider how lonfg it would really take to get the money back. How much of your $20 an hour can you spare towards it. I am still paying off credit cards from less than a year as an FO. I don't want to think of the hole I would be in if it had taken 2 years.

Blue Skies

 

[Riddlebratt]

The last few guys that replied have given the info that i need from their exper. @ this Airline and the whole picture with the situation from a pilot living the life. I appreciate the real view!!! thanks guys Riddlebratt.

 

[Desiday]

Hey Riddlebrat...you're a real loser. Why not take the mony you're gonna pay for training and put food on your table for you're family. You won't be able to make it in this field so go back to your 3X the pay job and just keep CFI'ing on the weekends. That's how you'll make it!!!!!!!

 

[stillaboo]

I have a family to support and cannot continue this CFI sh*t to much longer or I will definately be homeless.

How can someone be so poor they can't continue to be a CFI, but still have enough $ to pay for a job at Colgan (or anywhere else)?

Glad you've seen the light, 'RB', though I'm disheartened that it's only after you've heard how much Colgan guys struggle financially. Know that it isn't just at Colgan, but at all regionals. We aren't paid that much $, and, on top of that, many of the 'industry leaders' have taken concessions or acccepted contracts with poor pay levels.

"It's a hard knock life, for us . . . "

-Boo!

 

[Riddlebratt]

Stillaboo I am not crying broke but I don't have a bottomless pocket either. Just like any other pilot out there with age creaping up on he or she you just try to get the ball rolling. I spoke with these people at the Air Inc. convention. Thats why i asked the panel for intelligent information for me to form my own opinion....... thats called doing research for yourself....and getting the information from pilots at this airline is the best way to get the downlow. I love flying and would go to the ends of the world to accomplish my dream. I'm just trying to get to the same level as everyone wish to be at when things turn around. If you read my original post you will se that I'm only trying to get good info.

 

[Riddlebratt]

Desiday the only real loser in this whole wide world is your mother and thats because she had You!!!!!! Grow up and stop hating on other people who seek INFORMATION YOU IDIOT

 

[English]

Riddlebratt,

Please post specific questions for your information-gathering and we will be glad to assist you. Your original post is vague as to what you would like to know.

 

[kommutrdog]

Rude Awakening for Riddlebrat

Everyone leave Riddlebrat and his diapers alone, for he is in for a VERY rude awakening.

First of all, just where do you think you're gonna go with a whopping 500 hours of "purchased" PIC time. There are loads of pilots with 10 times that much and can't get a phone call returned from anybody.

Second, if you have 10 to 20 grand to toss into the scumbag-for-training circle, then save it and provide for your family. Stop complaining and get a real paying job...and build flight time on the side....trust me, the jobs ain't gonna come by that fast anytime soon. Just ask anyone who got their CFI in 1990 or so.

Third, hope your wife and kids are very understanding, because you won't see them much and there ain't gonna be any big presents under the x-mas tree any time soon.

Just what we need, another 500 hour wonder pilot, wearing Tom Cruise "Top Gun" glasses, all starry-eyed to fly a shiny jet for some race-to-the-bottom sh*t-bag airline for 18,000 a year.

PT Barnum said: "There is a sucker born every minute, and 2 people to take him"
That's it, I'm out. Flame away.