We have to stop S.J.S

[bailey3083]

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/optio...%20syndrome%22

 

[Ex737Driver]

Classic. If it could only be made into a movie. Wonder who they would get to play Jimmy.................

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

SJS is symptom.... If you want to cure the disease then go to Capital Hill in DC. In addition, globalization and liberalization of the international market place will have more effect on our careers than young pilots wanting to get thier airline career started... which by the way was all of us at one point...

 

[Ex737Driver]

which by the way was all of us at one point...

Funny, I don't remember any A320's or EMB190's pilot positions open when trying to get my first job, just turboprops.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Funny, I don't remember any A320's or EMB190's pilot positions open when trying to get my first job, just turboprops.

If there were, would you have rejected the jet jobs and flown a turbo-prop? What did the low time private pilots of the late 1960's do when UAL called?

Nonetheless, the point is not trying to get individuals to pass up opportunities, but to make the career what it needs to be....

 

[~~~^~~~]

S.J.S. How about B.J.S.?

Basically, if it is beneath me, I don't care - send it out to the lowest bidder.

Scope has been negotiated by mainline pilots, not regional guys. In fact, the regionals have been excluded from scope negotiations and have no scope. The mainline pilots' representatives designed the race for the bottom and ALPA Economic and Financial Analysis has provided spreadsheets with "bargaining credits" for the outsourcing.

You have to stop B.J.S. first. S.J.S. is just an effect.

 

[pkober]

We would have taken any flying job to build time. Stop being soooo honorable. If this industry suck move on to something else.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Yeah - but I like flying.

 

[jhill]

Funny, I don't remember any A320's or EMB190's pilot positions open when trying to get my first job, just turboprops.

yea, and I had to walk to work in the snow (uphill) to fly a Bandit for 12 bucks an hour.

 

[XJohXJ]

yea, and I had to walk to work in the snow (uphill) to fly a Bandit for 12 bucks an hour.

Fortunately, everything cost a nickle back then, and you could get a nice house for $10,000.

 

[AA717driver]

E-110 FO. $800/mo. pre-tax. Ahhhh...the good old days. But, your money went a LONG way in DBQ. TC

 

[FDJ2]

S.J.S. How about B.J.S.?

Fins, do you think that mainline pilots have the right to make scope more restrictive, keep it the same, or have no right to scope the airlines code?

Didn't you quit flightinfo a couple of months ago?

 

[Ratherbsurfing]

Hey Ex737Driver, hate the game not the player. I suspect if those positions were available to you at the time you would have taken them.

 

[Ex737Driver]

Hey, if your going to use it, it's playa. The point was that there would NOT have been the option to apply for a job at a company with that equipment. The environment, the growth prospects, the hub and spoke mentality, the scope, and the absence of "regional" equipment prohibited the ability of a new airline to do what several are doing today. And no, I don't believe I would have. 15 years ago, why would you go with an upstart that paid crap and had no track record, rather than go with the majors commuter feed that ultimately led to a job with a major?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Fins, do you think that mainline pilots have the right to make scope more restrictive, keep it the same, or have no right to scope the airlines code?

Of course mainline guys have the right to decide their scope. But, those ALPA members who earn a living performing that flying should have the ability to participate and scope their flying too.

The way things went on our property was as follows:

1. Delta pilots traded scope away
2. ASA and Comair pilots tried to enter negotiations with the Delta pilots & Delta to work on "brand scope"
3. The Delta pilots used ALPA to shut the ASA and Comair pilots out of the process
4. The flying was RFP'd to the lowest bidder while the Delta pilots took "negotiating credits" for flying which was once performed by ALPA members at ASA and Comair.

Shiny jet syndrome does exist, but it is not the reason for the decline in this profession. The reason our profession is in decline is because once the mainline guys decided they did not want to fly RJ's, ALPA decided that RJ flying was not worth protecting. Without scope, flying goes to the lowest bidder. Unfortunately part of ALPA thinks this is a good thing.

 

[Tomct]

:bawling: Too BAD!! Here we are all members of the same union and yet....we continue to fight! We should be backing up one another to keep this profession on the up and up. Instead, mgmnt is proving that we as pilots are nothing but a bunch of selfish whores! We should Stick TOGETHER....NOT FIGHT AGAINST EACH OTHER!

 

[newnan]

SJS started long before there were SJ's. It started when you were getting paid to fly in the right seat of a Baron, 310, 421, aerostar, etc. and someone came along and said "Hey I need multi time, can I ride in your right seat and you don't have to pay me anything". That turned into "Hey, I need multi time, can I pay you to ride in your right seat to build time?". That turned into commuters (oh oh, the bad word) realizing that people would actually pay for their own training to fly a turboprop. Then you spend time in the Philly trailers listening to the Mesa guys with stars in their eyes because they get to fly a jet. Big F'n whoop dee doo, at that time it didn't matter whether the fan was inside the cowling or outside but "Hey, I'm flying a jet" doesn't matter what I'm getting paid. Remember watching the new jet pilots land, you swear the nose wheel was going to hit first, and sometimes it did! If I'm lyin, I'm dyin, that's the history of SJS and until the puppy factories stop pumping out "I'll fly for less" things won't change.

 

[ground stop]

if you want the fly for less to go away, change the 121 pax mins to 1500hrs, same as atp. more work will go into getting to that experience level, leading to a greater value placed on those newbie pilots by themselves. "i slaved away at some crap job to get here, now i want to be paid accordingly", not "i paid to get my type in the rj and i got hired with 400hrs, it was easy."

 

[learflyer]

It's, funny. Hate to say it, but " back in my day" (i'm only 34) it wasn't shiny jet syndrome, it was "shiny c-310 syndrome, or "shiny retractable gear SE syndrome", or "shiny I am blessed to instruct in twins syndrome". It took me about 4 years of instructing before I was allowed to instruct in a twin. Remember insurance requirements back in the day didn't allow for most of us to instruct in a twin? You had to have like 50 hours in a twin which lead to a catch 22 situation. So How in the he11 can I get the multi-time?

I know the pay sucks, in the regionals, but it always had and it always will. Atleast you kids these days are able to skip a bunch of steps before you get into your shiny jet. Oh, yeah, you also have the internet. This website has ALOT to do with some of the attitudes that exist today. Back then, there were no websites to ask for advice, spread negativity, etc. I think that if the internet didn't exist, the attitude that "commuters suck" wouldn't be around. It would just be thought of as a place to move on to the next step.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Another way to stop SJS is for UPS, NWA, UAL pilots to quit approving contracts with $30/hr first year pay....

 

[SennaP1]

"SJS" is a lame excuse. That SJS brochure is lame.

 

[bailey3083]

"SJS" is a lame excuse. That SJS brochure is lame.

Its a simple joke to lighten the day! What am I now John Kerry? Geez LOL

 

[ultrarunner]

Then you need to change the direction of 'supply and demand'. Simple as that. When you figger that out , let us know.

 

[elag777]

SJS started long before there were SJ's. It started when you were getting paid to fly in the right seat of a Baron, 310, 421, aerostar, etc. and someone came along and said "Hey I need multi time, can I ride in your right seat and you don't have to pay me anything". That turned into "Hey, I need multi time, can I pay you to ride in your right seat to build time?". That turned into commuters (oh oh, the bad word) realizing that people would actually pay for their own training to fly a turboprop. Then you spend time in the Philly trailers listening to the Mesa guys with stars in their eyes because they get to fly a jet. Big F'n whoop dee doo, at that time it didn't matter whether the fan was inside the cowling or outside but "Hey, I'm flying a jet" doesn't matter what I'm getting paid. Remember watching the new jet pilots land, you swear the nose wheel was going to hit first, and sometimes it did! If I'm lyin, I'm dyin, that's the history of SJS and until the puppy factories stop pumping out "I'll fly for less" things won't change.

Like you were never a "I'll fly for less" guy!

 

[doh]

yea, and I had to walk to work in the snow (uphill) to fly a Bandit for 12 bucks an hour.

It was uphill BOTH ways for me! And where did you find this $12/hr paradise, we got a buck ninety eight... and we liked it!