We all want age 60 changed?

[gearjockey]

Paragraph copied from a story on a news site I visit. I definitely do not think this way and don't believe "most people do" Maybe she needs a head exam. Any fly with this broad? Deuce pilot income baby!



Age rules forcing pilot to quit at 60
By Robert J. Smith, Northwest Arkansas News, Monday October 29, 2007




...Pilot Leah Morgenthau, a 33-year-old Fayetteville native who flies for Express Jet, is the perfect person to ask about this retirement stuff even if she’s a tad young. Her husband is a Delta Air Lines pilot. Her sister flies for Chautauqua Airlines, a regional carrier. Her brother-in-law takes United Parcel Service planes into the air. They are all in their 30s. “Pretty much all of us think age 65 should be implemented,” said Morgenthau, who lives in Louisville, Ky. But many young pilots can’t wait for the oldest pilots at the legacy carriers like Delta and Continental to retire so they can move up in seniority or move from a regional carrier to work for the big boys. “It’s completely selfish,” Morgenthau said. “I haven’t met one person who thinks a person between age 60 and 65 is incapable of flying.” Robert J. Smith’s column about people on the move in Northwest Arkansas appears each Monday.

 

[CitationUltra]

Your point?

The so-called "Age 60" rule is a blatantly discriminatory relic of the 1950s and should have been changed years ago. There is no medical or logical basis for it.

 

[DoinTime]

“I haven’t met one person who thinks a person between age 60 and 65 is incapable of flying.”

I know plenty of people between those ages that have no business in a cockpit.

The so-called "Age 60" rule is a blatantly discriminatory relic of the 1950s and should have been changed years ago. There is no medical or logical basis for it.

Agreed....Our medical standards need to come up to the 21st century though to keep this a safe operation though. The current FAA medical standards are a absolute joke.

 

[ballsdeep123]

Your point?

The so-called "Age 60" rule is a blatantly discriminatory relic of the 1950s and should have been changed years ago. There is no medical or logical basis for it.

At some point, no matter how physically apt you are, your mind starts to slow down. It happens to everyone. You start not being able to react as fast to certain situations. I think that's where the age 60 rule came from and I've talked to people who have retired at age 60 who have agreed that they think their mind isn't as sharp as it used to be and they're glad that the retirement age is 60.

 

[siucavflight]

I have flown with guys in their 20s that should not be in a cockpit.

 

[ballsdeep123]

I have flown with guys in their 20s that should not be in a cockpit.

Very true. Imagine that guy at 60.

 

[olympus593]

Y'all do whatever you want, hell retire the day before you die if you want to, anyway raise it , I'm done at 60 I will spend the end of my life in Aruba, enjoy your week end when your 65 at the ramada.

 

[av8tor4239]

Your point?

The so-called "Age 60" rule is a blatantly discriminatory relic of the 1950s and should have been changed years ago. There is no medical or logical basis for it.

And 65 is not discriminatory?

 

[siucavflight]

And 65 is not discriminatory?

That is what I was thinking, if not 60 where do we cap it, what is not discriminatory.

 

[BIGGOAT]

I am 36 years old. So lets change it in 23 years!!


Goat

 

[John Pennekamp]

If you read the article closely, she was saying she and all of her family think it should be changes, not all pilots think it should be changed. They're welcome to their opinion.

 

[DrewBlows]

Paragraph copied from a story on a news site I visit. I definitely do not think this way and don't believe "most people do" Maybe she needs a head exam. Any fly with this broad? Deuce pilot income baby!

It's all about context my friend. The sentence, “Pretty much all of us think age 65 should be implemented,” if taken on it's own suggests every airline pilot wants to fly past age 60 or at least wants the option. However that sentence is directly preceded by "Her husband is a Delta Air Lines pilot. Her sister flies for Chautauqua Airlines, a regional carrier. Her brother-in-law takes United Parcel Service planes into the air. They are all in their 30s." You see, while it would be impossible to know exactly what she meant without speaking to her directly, but a reasonable person could deduce that she was speaking for her husband, sister, and brother-in-law, but not for the entire population.

Perhaps a semester in reading comprehension at the local community college is in order before the next time you suggest a "broad" get her "head examined".

 

[Flying Illini]

At some point, no matter how physically apt you are, your mind starts to slow down. It happens to everyone. You start not being able to react as fast to certain situations. I think that's where the age 60 rule came from and I've talked to people who have retired at age 60 who have agreed that they think their mind isn't as sharp as it used to be and they're glad that the retirement age is 60.

I definitely think she's on the right track when she talks about the selfishness being a major reason.

Of course there are people who say that their mind isn't as sharp at age 60. Just as there are people who say they're on top of their game. Heck, since driving is more dangerous than flying, maybe people shouldn't drive after age 60 since "their minds aren't as sharp."

A more persuasive argument would be that Corporate operators have been keeping pilots over 60 on the payroll for a long, long time and those guys are doing just fine.

All that stuff aside, here's a more important question...what's wrong with letting someone who's medically and mentally fit stay in the cockpit till they are 65??

 

[Tarzan]

All that stuff aside, here's a more important question...what's wrong with letting someone who's medically and mentally fit stay in the cockpit till they are 65??

Because they are in my way. How's that for selfish? Mwahahaha!

 

[CitationUltra]

And 65 is not discriminatory?

Yes, it is. It should be based on medical standards.

If the individual airlines want a mandatory retirement age policy, they set one or negotiate one in the bargaining process.

 

[Black Hawk]

Yes, it is. It should be based on medical standards.

If the individual airlines want a mandatory retirement age policy, they set one or negotiate one in the bargaining process.

You bet. When the age changes the negotiating process will take care of some of the upside/downside issues that will take place.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I want to get rid of an age limit, and all other discriminatory restrictions on people.

I was turned down for jobs because I was a guy, and my wife was turned down for a promotion because she was a girl.

Neither of us was happy. I don't want a pilot to have to quit because he is age "XX".

It is wrong, and stupid.

cliff
LRD

PS-The JAA started an Age 70 study committee earlier this year.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I was turned down for jobs because I was a guy,

That was you that sued Hooters, wasn't it?

 

[PCL_128]

If you read the article closely, she was saying she and all of her family think it should be changes, not all pilots think it should be changed. They're welcome to their opinion.

True, but she goes on to say "“I haven’t met one person who thinks a person between age 60 and 65 is incapable of flying.” Since the ALPA polling of her own airline, ExpressJet, indicated that a significant majority of her own pilot group is opposed to raising the age, I find her statement to completely lack credibility.

 

[John Pennekamp]

True, but she goes on to say "“I haven’t met one person who thinks a person between age 60 and 65 is incapable of flying.” Since the ALPA polling of her own airline, ExpressJet, indicated that a significant majority of her own pilot group is opposed to raising the age, I find her statement to completely lack credibility.

I don't disagree. Leave it to the media to find one person who will back up the view they want you to have, then pass that person's opinion off as a universal fact.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Help, Leah Morgenthau get a job at CAL so she can be furloughed by the age changing to 65 during the next down turn.

 

[CitationUltra]

At some point, no matter how physically apt you are, your mind starts to slow down. It happens to everyone. You start not being able to react as fast to certain situations. I think that's where the age 60 rule came from and I've talked to people who have retired at age 60 who have agreed that they think their mind isn't as sharp as it used to be and they're glad that the retirement age is 60.

Agreed, but does that happen at 12:01 a.m. on the occasion of your 60th birthday? Or is it 58? or 48? There are cases of Alzhiemer's disease in people in their 50s. Recently an 82 year old man passed the Mensa entrance test.

The point is, the FAA administers a medical examination to every airline pilot every six months. If a person can pass it, then they should be able to fly, if the medical examination is adequate. On the other hand, if the FAA medical exam is not adequate, then that should be changed.

Airline pilots reaching the age of sixty are at the zenith of their proficiency and experience. It is a shame to throw them overboard on the mere basis of the passing of a date on the calendar.

 

[CitationUltra]

And BTW, that's not where the age sixty rule came from. It was an ALPA feather-bedding rule from the start. Even in the late 1950s it was the singular case of federally-mandated industrial age discrimination.

 

[PCL_128]

And BTW, that's not where the age sixty rule came from. It was an ALPA feather-bedding rule from the start. Even in the late 1950s it was the singular case of federally-mandated industrial age discrimination.

Bullsh&^. ALPA opposed the Age-60 rule for many years. Feather-bedding indeed. The rule came about because American Airlines wanted to get rid of their older pilots, and they had regulators in their back pockets that were more than happy to help out. Add in a few studies that just so happened to back up their case about declining safety from older pilots, and the new rule was an easy sell. Nothing to do with ALPA feather-bedding.

 

[CitationUltra]

Bullsh&^. ALPA opposed the Age-60 rule for many years. Feather-bedding indeed. The rule came about because American Airlines wanted to get rid of their older pilots, and they had regulators in their back pockets that were more than happy to help out. Add in a few studies that just so happened to back up their case about declining safety from older pilots, and the new rule was an easy sell. Nothing to do with ALPA feather-bedding.

You are absolutely right, and I apologize--I forgot that story but remember now that you have refreshed my memory. The rule, nevertheless, was promulgated upon a political basis, not impirical medical criteria.

 

[PCL_128]

You are absolutely right, and I apologize--I forgot that story but remember now that you have refreshed my memory. The rule, nevertheless, was promulgated upon a political basis, not impirical medical criteria.

The rule was born from a desire to kick out the geezers that were high-paid, but they actually did use peer-reviewed medical studies to prove a need for the rule. Of course, everyone against the rule has their studies also to back their side up, but to say that no empirical evidence was used to back up the rule would be incorrect. Studies as recently as in the last decade have demonstrated a dramatic rise in accidents/incidents in pilots over the age of 55. A poster here by the name of Andy can point you to those studies if you want to PM him.

 

[General Lee]

Your point?

The so-called "Age 60" rule is a blatantly discriminatory relic of the 1950s and should have been changed years ago. There is no medical or logical basis for it.

Why do policemen and firemen have mandatory retirement ages of 55? Do you want old cops and firemen helping you out of a burning building? Why does the Constitution say you have to be older than 33 to be President of the United States? Should we change the Constitution becuase of that blatent age discrimination? Why did ICAO state that no two pilots over the age of 60 should share the same cockpit? Why would they state that if there is no medical proof? Why did ICAO state male pilots could go to 65 years old, and females could go to 69 years old in their study? Should we allow women to fly until 69 because ICAO says it would be OK, and men to 65? When do pilots show signs of aging? Can you see it in a normal medical? How many pilots go to very thurough medicals? Anyone? People start to lose their hearing and night vision as they get older, and old pilots who have flown for 30 years often can't hear a thing and lose situational awareness easily. If you haven't seen this, then you are a blind old pilot yourself.

And to top it off, every old pilot out there on any seniority list has gained seniority thanks to their Captains leaving at age 60. I don't care if pensions are going away now, because not every airline has had that happen. Too bad, stay married to your first wife.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[BeCareful!]

General Lee for Congress!

 

[Tim47SIP]

Gen, I get pissed every time I see someone throw in police, ATC, Federal, fire, etc with 55 as the criteria. These guys are different. They have a separate pension system (no SSAN taxes) and 55 was set due to physical (not mental) abilities for police, FBI, etc. All of these individuals have the ability (and can stay) well beyond that age limit.

Your other examples are well noted and I agree that there is a reason for those age requirements. The bottom line here is that it will change regardless of what you or I think. ALPA has already set their ears on a different tune since their last poll.

I have 15+ years before that happens but I believe it will happen.

 

[PCL_128]

I agree that it will happen, but I will do whatever I can to delay it for as long as possible.