Watch out for another competitor other than EK, EY or QR: Turkish Airlines

Heavy Set

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Everyone likes to fixate on the 3 big Gulf carriers - Emirates, Etihad and Qatar. The discussions on FI on others about US or Euro carriers vs. Gulf carriers is getting repetitive. Meanwhile, it seems like people are forgetting about another big carrier that is also growing very fast in the region that has the potential to establish one of the best networks in the industry - Turkish Airlines.

Facts:

- Turkish currently operates 240-250 airframes from 737NGs/A320s to A330s & 777s and aims to operate 500 aircraft by 2020
- Turkish currently serves 190 destinations in 103 countries and it aims to increase those destinations to 250+ in the next few years (if you wanted to you could fly one stop from Los Angeles to Mogadishu, Somalia on Turkish)
- Because of its location close to Europe Turkish can fly cheaper shorthaul aircraft into Europe (i.e., 737-800/900s or A320s) and then connect with longerhaul aircraft for the longer haul Asian or African flights
- Istanbul is planning on upgrading its current, crowded airport with a huge 6-runway airport (over various phases) enabling 24 hour operations for both passengers and cargo

IF Turkey can get its act together and actually build the new airport, Turkish could have a serious competitive advantage with significant capacity for growth and passenger/cargo connections. From a geographic perspective, Istanbul could be in a better location for these connections than Dubai/Abu Dhabi/Doha. Turkish continues to grow into North America and South America and it has ordered more 777s and A330s recently - but it stays out of the lime light that Emirates, Etihad and Qatar are basking in. Sure, Turkish is a member of a global alliance, but how many of these passengers could fly UAL or DAL from the US to India/ME/Africa but are flying Turkish instead?

Having just visited Istanbul on a flight recently, I can tell you the Turks are motivated and optimistic. Who knows if it will come to fruition on time, but the growth of the airports in the ME is being watched very closely by the Turks and they don't want to give up their logistics ambitions. People need to keep their eyes on Turkish Airlines too - not just the fast-growing Gulf carriers.

Interesting related articles:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/12/business/looking-for-an-emerging-market-airline-routes/index.html?hpt=hp_c3

http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/turkish-airlines-turns-its-attention-to-latin-america-with-four-new-destinations-in-201314-114426

http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/turkish-airlines-plans-further-north-american-expansion-with-houston-and-potentially-miami-77202

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul_New_Airport

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/istanbul-s-new-airport-has-advantage-over-gulf--516666.html#.UoPMuPIo5Ms

http://www.newsinenglish.no/2013/08/27/turkish-airlines-plans-expansion/
 
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bafanguy

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They've been doing some heavy duty advertising for pilots for a while now. Appears to be both seats, all types in the fleet.

However, they still have the JAA license requirement ( don't see any statement in the ads making allowances for another license...but maybe they do ? ) and 1000 hours time in type, even for FOs. My US acquaintance who flew for them has a JAA license so isn't a test case.

Of course, I have no idea who/what quals are actually getting hired but have to wonder if they are isolating themselves from a portion of the available pilot supply by having those requirements.

And, ask if they're getting enough pilots to make their business plan a reality. Fun to watch at any rate...
 

Heavy Set

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Can you imagine a 24-hour airport with 6 extended runways (after several build-out phases over a couple years) and how that could impact trade flows?

Who knows if they can get it done, but it could create a big advantage for Turkish Airlines. Looks like it would be built near the water on the map so they could also get shipping and rail connections for a great logistics hub.
 

sniper

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Everyone likes to fixate on the 3 big Gulf carriers - Emirates, Etihad and Qatar. The discussions on FI on others about US or Euro carriers vs. Gulf carriers is getting repetitive. Meanwhile, it seems like people are forgetting about another big carrier that is also growing very fast in the region that has the potential to establish one of the best networks in the industry - Turkish Airlines.

Facts:

- Turkish currently operates 240-250 airframes from 737NGs/A320s to A330s & 777s and aims to operate 500 aircraft by 2020
- Turkish currently serves 190 destinations in 103 countries and it aims to increase those destinations to 250+ in the next few years (if you wanted to you could fly one stop from Los Angeles to Mogadishu, Somalia on Turkish)
- Because of its location close to Europe Turkish can fly cheaper shorthaul aircraft into Europe (i.e., 737-800/900s or A320s) and then connect with longerhaul aircraft for the longer haul Asian or African flights
- Istanbul is planning on upgrading its current, crowded airport with a huge 6-runway airport (over various phases) enabling 24 hour operations for both passengers and cargo

IF Turkey can get its act together and actually build the new airport, Turkish could have a serious competitive advantage with significant capacity for growth and passenger/cargo connections. From a geographic perspective, Istanbul could be in a better location for these connections than Dubai/Abu Dhabi/Doha. Turkish continues to grow into North America and South America and it has ordered more 777s and A330s recently - but it stays out of the lime light that Emirates, Etihad and Qatar are basking in. Sure, Turkish is a member of a global alliance, but how many of these passengers could fly UAL or DAL from the US to India/ME/Africa but are flying Turkish instead?

Having just visited Istanbul on a flight recently, I can tell you the Turks are motivated and optimistic. Who knows if it will come to fruition on time, but the growth of the airports in the ME is being watched very closely by the Turks and they don't want to give up their logistics ambitions. People need to keep their eyes on Turkish Airlines too - not just the fast-growing Gulf carriers.

Interesting related articles:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/12/business/looking-for-an-emerging-market-airline-routes/index.html?hpt=hp_c3

http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/turkish-airlines-turns-its-attention-to-latin-america-with-four-new-destinations-in-201314-114426

http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/turkish-airlines-plans-further-north-american-expansion-with-houston-and-potentially-miami-77202

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul_New_Airport

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/istanbul-s-new-airport-has-advantage-over-gulf--516666.html#.UoPMuPIo5Ms

http://www.newsinenglish.no/2013/08/27/turkish-airlines-plans-expansion/









you are correct and I hope the UAL MEC and its pilot group do something about it
 

NEDude

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Now accepting FAA and other ICAO licenses...
 

bafanguy

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Now accepting FAA and other ICAO licenses...

Must be a sign of somethin' or other, huh ? I see SunExpress still sticking to the JAA-only requirement.
 

NEDude

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Must be a sign of somethin' or other, huh ? I see SunExpress still sticking to the JAA-only requirement.

A sign that things are turning around in Europe as well. Several large European airlines are hiring again after years of stagnation. EASA/JAA pilots are starting to return home and ditching the contract world.
 

Dumb Pilot

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A sign that things are turning around in Europe as well. Several large European airlines are hiring again after years of stagnation. EASA/JAA pilots are starting to return home and ditching the contract world.
What?????? Don't know where you got that idea from....!
 

atpcliff

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I just had my first flight on Turkish, in "Business" class.

It was ********************.

It was worse than every other international carrier I have been on, and I have flown on over 25 non-US carriers. It was even worse than EVERY UAL/DAL/CAL/USAir/AA business class flight I have had.

They have a LONG way to go to compete with the ME carriers!!!
 

NEDude

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What?????? Don't know where you got that idea from....!

Where do you get the idea things aren't turning around in Europe? Several of the large European legacy carriers are beginning to hire (SAS for example is actively hiring for the first time in well over a decade and will be retiring nearly 50% of their pilots over the next five years or so) and many smaller carriers are expanding rapidly. Norwegian is growing like a weed and has pretty decent pay. I know pilots at SAS, Norwegian, EasyJet, Atlantic Airlines as well as instructors at some some of those and other airlines. Europe is not in full blown pilot hiring mode yet, but things are definitely turning around here.

PS- A neighbor, a former Cimber Sterling 737 captain, just turned down Emirates to start at SAS next Monday.
 
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Dumb Pilot

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Where do you get the idea things aren't turning around in Europe?.
The SAS pilots that just started training with us a few months ago and the non stop number of applications from pilots from the EU to this and every other contract available in Asia.
 

NEDude

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The SAS pilots that just started training with us a few months ago and the non stop number of applications from pilots from the EU to this and every other contract available in Asia.

Hmm, I have family members, friends and neighbors who work for several large European airlines who say differently.
 

Dumb Pilot

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Hmm, I have family members, friends and neighbors who work for several large European airlines who say differently.
I have 100 plus coworkers that thank you for the laughs, I just had to post your predictions of the pilot shortage in Europe on our intranet.
 

NEDude

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I have 100 plus coworkers that thank you for the laughs, I just had to post your predictions of the pilot shortage in Europe on our intranet.

That is fine, I'd be happy to offer references if you are trying to make it a contest. :rolleyes:
 

NEDude

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Nah, thanks.....! I rather go by the number of applicants from the EU

Okay, and I will go by what I see living here in the EU, by the European legacy airline that provides half of my household income, the neighbor who flies for a large European airline, the in-law who works in training for another European airline, the two parents of my kids classmates who fly for European airlines, the friend who just got hired by a large European legacy airline, and the other friend who works for CAE/Parc Aviation simulation here in Europe.
 

Dumb Pilot

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You can quote Tony Blair if you like, but until I see even a slight reduction in applications to this and other contracts I can't even begin to entertain the possibility, if anything the applications have actually increased and this information is from the head hunters. Sorry but the facts don't support your claim.
 

flyboyike

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The two factors may not be mutually exclusive. Hiring may be picking up in the EU, but people still may be going to contract gigs for any number of reasons. We're seeing that currently in the US as well. The majors are finally starting to hire, but people are still going to EK and such.
 

General Lee

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Turkish Airlines hires foreign pilots for safety: CEO
ISTANBUL Anadolu Agency


CEO Temel Kotil attended the graduation ceremony of two-year students of THY Flight Training Academy Jan. 14.

Turkish Airlines (THY) employs foreign pilots to attain global quality standards, the CEO of the company said, while speaking at the graduation ceremony of the Turkish pilot academy students.

"We need pilots. Aren't there any in Turkey? There are in some schools, but we cannot take them because they are not qualified for our criteria," THY CEO Temel Kotil said on Jan. 14 at the graduation ceremony of two-year students of THY Flight Training Academy.

Nobody should be offended, but we need to maintain some certain level of quality. I dont want to say "unsafe" referring to those pilots, but they don't fit with our criteria, he stated, noting the company will keep hiring foreign pilots because of these concerns.

Some 63 pilots graduated yesterday and will begin performing their duties for THY planes, Kotil also said. "We wish safe flights for them."

He also said the THY does very well and targets servicing around 60 million passengers this year.





There obviously is a global need for pilots, and it's gonna get worse. Throw in SE Asia (Air Asia and Lion Air recruitment), the ME, China, and huge numbers of US retirements, and this will get interesting. Even DL supposedly informed their subsidiary Endeavor that hiring will increase to 600 from 300 this year, even though most think it could be higher than that.



Bye Bye---General Lee
 

atpcliff

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Skymark is an Asian carrier flying 737s.they just parked 4 airplanes due to a lack of about 65 crew. I was just on the Rushdie site...I have NEVER seen so many pilot jobs on their site.
 
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